Concept Z initial impressions. Did I expect too much?

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Re: Concept Z initial impressions. Did I expect too much?

Postby reason162 » Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:21 pm

Would be interesting to see once the Z bushings are available in standard shim/daiwa sizes, considering the fact that the reel can keep up in casting distance. The rest of the reel being sloppy, well...that might not ultimately be the point (although if the bushings themselves are sloppy, no thanks!)

Looking forward to further reviews from unsponsored, unbiased reviewers like scooby. So much noise (literal and figurative) on this reel lol.

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Re: Concept Z initial impressions. Did I expect too much?

Postby 13Fishing » Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:53 am

So....basically summarizing everything on this thread.

The Concept Z has proven its point and philosophy. We have developed a new one-piece bearing technology that casts equal to or better than the reels in its class. It will do exactly what it is intended to do, perform day after day without the performance loss ball bearings are famous for. Its casts are extremely consistent without having to manage bearing maintenance or lubrication standards.

I respect your opinion and hear the subjective criticism that you think the tolerances of the reel could be tighter. I must make the point that the Concept isn't an unproven reel design, it is one of the top selling low profile reels in North America. It also isn't an enthusiasts 500.00++++ bait caster like many of the ridiculously high priced reels it has been compared to on this thread, it IS a reel built for your everyday angler.

When used for its intended purpose, it is already proving to be a extremely competitive reel, this is why retailers are selling out huge quantities as soon as they arrive. There are countless anglers that are extremely happy with what they have purchased, they have the foresight to see that they purchased a product that will take LESS maintenance, yet will still keep doing what it was designed to do.

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you guys are so caught up in proving what will cast longer you seem to have missed the point that a ZERO BALL BEARING reel just went head to head with some pretty high end reels and more than held its own.

Maybe you guys should try skipping it under docks, or making short effortless casts with it and start to appreciate what the reel offers. Throw an unweighted plastic like a Senko and see how smoothly it delivers the bait.

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Re: Concept Z initial impressions. Did I expect too much?

Postby RMCatchNrelease » Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:08 am

13Fishing wrote:So....basically summarizing everything on this thread.

The Concept Z has proven its point and philosophy. We have developed a new one-piece bearing technology that casts equal to or better than the reels in its class. It will do exactly what it is intended to do, perform day after day without the performance loss ball bearings are famous for. Its casts are extremely consistent without having to manage bearing maintenance or lubrication standards.

I respect your opinion and hear the subjective criticism that you think the tolerances of the reel could be tighter. I must make the point that the Concept isn't an unproven reel design, it is one of the top selling low profile reels in North America. It also isn't an enthusiasts 500.00++++ bait caster like many of the ridiculously high priced reels it has been compared to on this thread, it IS a reel built for your everyday angler.

When used for its intended purpose, it is already proving to be a extremely competitive reel, this is why retailers are selling out huge quantities as soon as they arrive. There are countless anglers that are extremely happy with what they have purchased, they have the foresight to see that they purchased a product that will take LESS maintenance, yet will still keep doing what it was designed to do.

Matt
13 Fishing

you guys are so caught up in proving what will cast longer you seem to have missed the point that a ZERO BALL BEARING reel just went head to head with some pretty high end reels and more than held its own.

Maybe you guys should try skipping it under docks, or making short effortless casts with it and start to appreciate what the reel offers. Throw an unweighted plastic like a Senko and see how smoothly it delivers the bait.


I am a big 13 Fishing fan here...that said, distance seems to be the main focus of every sponsored tester. There is a clear push on YouTube to make this reel out as the best caster ever. Perhaps, you should have told them to emphasize other areas and or talk about the spool control when skipping and casting. As it is, every reviewer you sent pre-release to simply says, "I have never casted that far...my god look how far...look how much line came off the spool". I think that hype really put up some HUGE expectations. Maintenance free is nice, but it is not why everyone is hyped to try the reel. It is touted as smooth as glass, "can't even tell I'm turn8ng the handle" and "launches baits further than anything I've tried" . If it delivers on those, you have a real winner!

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Re: Concept Z initial impressions. Did I expect too much?

Postby Cristo » Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:15 am

Image


Thanks to all who have chimed in so far. this is a nice round table discussion. I believe we as anglers can be a little fickle, especially when equipment is lauded so much. In any case I am still very interested at least in the technology this reel offers. As stated so many reels have marketing ploys and often cases is just a copy of another company's design with a different name, label slapping whatever you want to call it. In most cases technology turns out to be pretty innovative while others it turns out to be another scheme to grab our money. I generally Always look forward to new technology, but backed off in recent years ( found my older choice platforms). I really found in my experience that newer tech isn't always indicative of how a reel will perform or in some instances a case of dimishing returns. Thanks Scoob for your unapologetic thoughts. Matt thank you for your stance as well. This will be interesting how this plays out. I look forward to more thoughts nd opinions. In the end this kind of reasonable post is good for all :big grin:
"I don't keep track of time, otherwise time will keep track of you" .....Cambo

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Re: Concept Z initial impressions. Did I expect too much?

Postby 13Fishing » Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:50 am

Seems everyone has a youtube channel these days.... you might be surprised on how few of these guys are actually on our staff. Either way we don't influence their reviews and opinions.

If you listened and saw in our marketing videos the unscripted and candid reactions...these were genuine. The distance most are raving about is "effortless distance". They remark about how easy it is to pitch and flip without giving it "effort"

Sure....its natural after people do this, the next step is they want to throw the hell out of it. As a company we aren't going to stop this.(hell! we will encourage this!) Every single time you see a Z cast far it helps validate the fact that a ZERO BALL BEARING reel CAN offer up the distance that a ball bearing reel does. Its not easy to change a belief system that has been marketed for decades in our industry.

We didn't make any statements on how it is the longest casting reel in the world, none. But its not to shabby on distance.

Now that anglers are getting them, you will start to hear the technical stuff. I think Zander here at TT will give you guys some insight on the Non-distance attributes of the Z.

Give it some time, it will grow on you. Remember when you got that phone with just ONE button on it.

Matt
13 Fishing

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Re: Concept Z initial impressions. Did I expect too much?

Postby y2k88 » Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:54 am

13Fishing wrote:So....basically summarizing everything on this thread.
...
It will do exactly what it is intended to do, perform day after day without the performance loss ball bearings are famous for. Its casts are extremely consistent without having to manage bearing maintenance or lubrication standards.
...
are countless anglers that are extremely happy with what they have purchased
...
a ZERO BALL BEARING reel just went head to head with some pretty high end reels and more than held its own.
...

To be honest, I don't think anywhere in the thread have we been able to test or prove this...

Still think it's a good thing someone is there to challenge traditional thinking and could be the start of something.

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Re: Concept Z initial impressions. Did I expect too much?

Postby africanbass » Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:36 am

Simple, try it out if you have the urge
If it blows your hair back,spread the good news
Good news= sales
Simple,the converse also applies
Happiness is a sore thumb

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Re: Concept Z initial impressions. Did I expect too much?

Postby Cristo » Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:52 am

Image
"I don't keep track of time, otherwise time will keep track of you" .....Cambo

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Re: Concept Z initial impressions. Did I expect too much?

Postby freelancer27 » Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:54 am

13Fishing wrote:Seems everyone has a youtube channel these days.... you might be surprised on how few of these guys are actually on our staff. Either way we don't influence their reviews and opinions.

If you listened and saw in our marketing videos the unscripted and candid reactions...these were genuine. The distance most are raving about is "effortless distance". They remark about how easy it is to pitch and flip without giving it "effort"

Sure....its natural after people do this, the next step is they want to throw the hell out of it. As a company we aren't going to stop this.(hell! we will encourage this!) Every single time you see a Z cast far it helps validate the fact that a ZERO BALL BEARING reel CAN offer up the distance that a ball bearing reel does. Its not easy to change a belief system that has been marketed for decades in our industry.

We didn't make any statements on how it is the longest casting reel in the world, none. But its not to shabby on distance.

Now that anglers are getting them, you will start to hear the technical stuff. I think Zander here at TT will give you guys some insight on the Non-distance attributes of the Z.

Give it some time, it will grow on you. Remember when you got that phone with just ONE button on it.

Matt
13 Fishing


Appreciate your response Matt.
I have a Bachelor in PR and Communications Management and one of the first things you learn is that: if one talks positively about their own products its marketing and if someone else talks positively about your products it is called good PR. This model is what you are leveraging in these youtube videos in my opinion. Sure, these are 'honest' opinions from people that you capture with your camera, but consider this:
if I was sponsored by a company, or benefited in any way from their success and this company would come to md and said: "Hey, we have this new product with a completely new technology, I think it will blow your mind. Let us shoot a video with you to capture what you think about it."

I think the product would have to be VERY crappy for me to say "well, that is not a product i like" and if I did I am not sure you would make this part of your promotion content (who would)...

There is quite a bit psychology involved in this process, but what it boils down to is that even if YOU as a company think that there is unbiased feedback, in most of the times it is not.

So yes, you as a company have never claimed that it is the furthest casting reel out there, but the expressions of your testimonials can very easily give this impression to the audience. Hence there are certain expectations out there - that some objective testers will look closely at (independent of the price point).

If a solid tester like ScoobyDoo does his testings and comes up with review results that he can (IMO) fairly well explain and demonstrate, then this is another information point that a well informed audience will take into consideration.

I feel like you confirmed his test by not offering him to exchange his reel against a new one, to show him and the passively watching audience, that the quality standard of the reel was not represented by the reel that he used.

Maybe this is the conundrum of our time: companies need to super-hype their products in order to grab the attention of the market place and consumers want to believe that they get X-times the performance from the new product so that they can justify to themselves that they need to feed the bait monkey to feel happy.

In the end we all kind of loose, but oh well... it is still fun 'loosing' in this particular domain ;)

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Re: Concept Z initial impressions. Did I expect too much?

Postby SSS » Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:04 am

QUAKEnSHAKE wrote:
SSS wrote:They had trouble competing with Daiwa and Shimano. Without a gimmick and a lot of paid youtubers, its very hard to get noticed when the other two delivering quality

Megabass, Daiwa, Shimano 4life. Rest can go away. :!:

They all have gimmicks daiwas T wing and sv, shimanos micro module and mgl and megabass doesnt even make their own reels.
Twing is nowhere near a gimmick. You may not like it, but calling it a gimmick is wrong. Micro Module with brass gear is the best kind of gear, so i wouldn't agree about it being a gimmick either. MGL, tho... yea, i do feel like its just a gimmick to sell their reels.

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Re: Concept Z initial impressions. Did I expect too much?

Postby SSS » Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:09 am

ScoobyDoo wrote:
QUAKEnSHAKE wrote:
SSS wrote:They had trouble competing with Daiwa and Shimano. Without a gimmick and a lot of paid youtubers, its very hard to get noticed when the other two delivering quality

Megabass, Daiwa, Shimano 4life. Rest can go away. :!:

They all have gimmicks daiwas T wing and sv, shimanos micro module and mgl and megabass doesnt even make their own reels.


T wing isn't a gimmick.
Whether it gains me distance or not I can't tell...never took it off and put on a standard levelwind. But it eliminates that bouncing off the rev limiter sound and sensation that happens on all non dsg levelwind reels as the line comes off the spool off center from the line guide. And i like the way stiffer lines come off the spool. If you've ever cast an open frame or non levelwind reel.(not sure if you have) but it offers that kind of smoothness. If daiwa put it in their lexa 400 which already has the furthest spaced levelwind from the spool ....It would have some serious long range bomber potential...Minus the greased spool bearings

Micro module is a gimmick in my opninion. I have owned plenty and it's no different in feel than gears in this concept or other reels. I don't feel the gears in the concept z any more than I do in an antares or steez. Look at van staal gears....they'd be called micro module 3x.....but it's still a coffee grinder :) (different gear cut but same idea of tiny teeth)

Now....the biggest gimmick i've seen...though it wasn't pushed at all...just given a name to something silly.......Daiwa's Zero Adjuster...now that is funny
Zero Adjuster is certainly dumb. But so is X-Ship. Its not even a feature worthy lol.

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Re: Concept Z initial impressions. Did I expect too much?

Postby QUAKEnSHAKE » Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:24 am

SSS wrote:
QUAKEnSHAKE wrote:
SSS wrote:They had trouble competing with Daiwa and Shimano. Without a gimmick and a lot of paid youtubers, its very hard to get noticed when the other two delivering quality

Megabass, Daiwa, Shimano 4life. Rest can go away. :!:

They all have gimmicks daiwas T wing and sv, shimanos micro module and mgl and megabass doesnt even make their own reels.
Twing is nowhere near a gimmick. You may not like it, but calling it a gimmick is wrong. Micro Module with brass gear is the best kind of gear, so i wouldn't agree about it being a gimmick either. MGL, tho... yea, i do feel like its just a gimmick to sell their reels.

I didnt say I didnt like it just that its a gimmick. I have T3, Tatula and recently purchased Tat SV. The 13 bearing claims to add value in that its less maint & noise. The twings claim is freer flowing line.

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Re: Concept Z initial impressions. Did I expect too much?

Postby Rippin-lips » Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:05 am

The zero adjuster makes perfect sense. It comes preset for optimal performance. A lot of users don’t understand how it should be setup for the best results. This feature has now eliminated that issue. It’s not something they’re pushing like the tws but it is handy.

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Re: Concept Z initial impressions. Did I expect too much?

Postby Markanthony404 » Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:45 am

Cristo wrote:Image


I believe we as anglers can be a little fickle, especially when equipment is lauded so much.

Very true.... :lol:

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Re: Concept Z initial impressions. Did I expect too much?

Postby Hennessy » Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:02 pm

Just watched your casting test of this reel versus the curado K. I'd say your review of this reel tops everyone else's on YouTube, that clearly are mostly sponsored and making this reel to be the best thing since sliced bread. I remember trying there $500 kp reel when it was out and I paid $250 for it and still was dissapointed, now that reel is nowhere around, lol. I think this reel is more for the younger crowd, who thinks it has the "cool" factor. If you're a shimano or daiwa user, no way this reel has a spot in your rotation. Not sure what a good price point would be but no way Id choose this over say a tatula sv/tw or the curado K that outcasted it, and those are much cheaper/tried and true options. And if you have anykind of ocd about your combos matching, that's another knock. My bfl season starts in a few weeks and I'm curious to how many of these I see people with, I'd probably say not many.


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