Bait the Finesse?!? Shimano -v- Daiwa Product Insight

[spookybaits]

Lol I can't believe Cal didnt know where the cast control knob was
(To be fair, I probably would've started wrenching on it too. Or read the instructions first ).

The cast control knob under that bar wouldn't bother me as much as the fact that it's on the palming side. Having to change hands to adjust the cast control knob would be like re-learning to write with the opposite hand. It really feels like Shimano is trying to reinvent the wheel lately(and failing at it).

Maybe It would feel natural after using it for a while?
Yeah... That just seems... I dunno.
So why did they move it? Is it just so the handle/drag star is closer to the reel? I'm sitting here air reeling- I don't see how having the handle 1/8-1/4in closer to the body improves anything. Seems like you'd bump your thumb knuckle.
It just all seems unnecessary.
When they do the casting test, I'd like to see them take a standard reel ( like the curado 50e) and put an ultra light/shallow spool in there and compare that as well.
Maybe when the casting part of the review comes it'll all make sense.

[Cal]

No worries guys... we issued an addendum/editor's note this morning acknowledging the error and keep in mind, this was not a review... it was a Product Insight sharing preliminary data on two products that we will now take out onto the water for a traditional review

As stated at the end of the article, this is far from over

[WoodT]

It doesn't feel natural to me, particularly when I am switching between rods. You don't have to adjust it much, though. It's cool looking and I assume the purpose is to slim down the overall frame. The frame is very sweet...I have posted side by side pictures with it next to the Core, and it is much smaller. But yeah, that position is weird (and seems like it would catch a lot of gunk over time).

It definitely has its quirks. But it is silky smooth, and at less than 350 bucks, it's a lot cheaper than buying a Core and adding that spool. It is absolutely a blast to use.

[spookybaits]

WoodT your killin' me!
I'm with ya- I don't think the editor's note at the bottom is gonna cut it. There's more than a few revisions due. 3sec spool spin time, ergonomics, what's under the 'other' cast control knob, Does the cast control click? Without the ratchet?

That being said- you know the guy who designed this has to be the same guy who put the Calcutta D's brake pins on the handle side. (Can we get this guy's name? Who is this guy?)

[Cal]

I don't think the editor's note at the bottom is gonna cut it.

Well that's all yer gettin' until part 2... that's what part 2 is for afterall

[spookybaits]

Nice.
Just checked the specs on Japantackle, says its 8.5mm closer.
"Core-fit-body design: handle is 8.5mm closer to reel body by moving cast control caps to palm cups"
Can you tell a difference when reeling? More comfortable/effortless?
It's crazy that the shimano jdm stuff is cheaper than the usdm shimano. Scorpion DC new less than $200.
I don't even wanna say how cheap I found the new Exsence DC.
Sorry, off topic

I might have to consider one for throwing 1/8 rooster tails

[WoodT]

It's more comfortable in its smoothness for sure. The Core was already small...the form factor is smaller on the palm plate side, not the gear side. So it palms smaller. It's pretty much flat to the rod.

It will throw 1/8 very well. It will throw smaller on the right rod but i rarely do...2.5 inch gitzit on a 1/16 jig head is my lightest lure i myself use. And people in MN/WI prefer Mepps to Rooster tails.

[savacs]

From my experience, and tests(actual casting tests), the free spool times are inconclusive in actual casting distance/ease.

And from my experience, and others... a Shimano is much easier to set and cast than any Daiwa (and by all means, each time we've put them head to head... Shimano outcast Daiwa every time), even though it has "external" braking adjustments...

Casting would really make the tests conclusive, not the free spool time, or the weights that make the spools move... that's for desk junkies, not for people who actually fish the reels. Making actual casting tests in head to head comparisons would be highly appreciated, and CONCLUSIVE.

[Tokugawa]

I have no real interest in free spool times...especially for really light spools.

Casting would really make the tests conclusive, not the free spool time, or the weights that make the spools move... that's for desk junkies, not for people who actually fish the reels. Making actual casting tests in head to head comparisons would be highly appreciated, and CONCLUSIVE.

So you are saying qualitative data in an uncontrolled environment is more conclusive than quantitative data in a controlled environment? I think they are both required to fully understand the product. You need both a technical assessment and a user experience, otherwise you end up believing things like "FC has no stretch".

Casting distance and the difficulty in getting repeatable casting data has been discussed ad nauseum in the forums.

[y2k88]

Quantitative data collected from a poorly designed/meaningless setup is, well..., meaningless.

Some people must feel stupid re: the cast control knob.

[mark poulson]

Are fishing reels important enough to take strongly opinionated positions about, or are they, at their heart, just another tool to do a job, and strictly a matter of personal preference?

[Cal]

Some people must feel stupid re: the cast control knob.

You can come out and say my name. I don't feel stupid. I made a mistake, addressed it in preliminary fashion, and will address it further in round 2. I'm actually glad it was my mistake and not Shimano's.

[mark poulson]

I'm just glad there are tests being done by people here who actually fish, instead of engineers.
While engineers are smart (just ask them), they also make mistakes because they sometimes can't see the forest for the trees.
Remember that Mars probe they parked sub-surface on Mars, because one set of engineers was using Imperial numbers, and the other was using decimals? They were both "right", but it still crashed.

[QUAKEnSHAKE]

I'm just glad there are tests being done by people here who actually fish, instead of engineers.
While engineers are smart (just ask them), they also make mistakes because they sometimes can't see the forest for the trees.
Remember that Mars probe they parked sub-surface on Mars, because one set of engineers was using Imperial numbers, and the other was using decimals? They were both "right", but it still crashed.

Uh the ones I work with they will tell you, dont even have to ask.

[Tokugawa]

I'm just glad there are tests being done by people here who actually fish, instead of engineers.
While engineers are smart (just ask them), they also make mistakes because they sometimes can't see the forest for the trees.
Remember that Mars probe they parked sub-surface on Mars, because one set of engineers was using Imperial numbers, and the other was using decimals? They were both "right", but it still crashed.

Yeah. And it's a good thing the boats, engines, electronics, rods and reels aren't designed by engineers. Oh. Nevermind. Surely - engineering and fishing are mutually exclusive. I'd surely never fish anything from a company like ito engineering...oh...

FWIW...we called Engineering "Pre-business".

Too many people are myopic. Here we have two examples:

1. A good TT article with lots of details and one mistake...but folks ignore the good stuff and seize on the easily correctable error.
2. Some guys get a probe TO FRICKIN' MARS and critics who can't even understand the math/science get to rant about an arithmetic error.

Is that "not seeing the forest for the trees"?

Some are leaders...some are sheeple...by his response it looks like Cal has broad enough shoulders to carry the burden.