preferred run guide sizes for medium casting rods

[Susitnasalmonguide]

It's been quite a while since I built a lighter weight casting rod, and I am considering going with smaller sized guides to less the weight of the build and make the rod tip more sensitive, however, I do not want to go so small that I start having performance issues with the guides --- or even that it becomes too difficult to string the rod. What suggestions are people willing to share ?

Thank you

[Frosty]

It's been quite a while since I built a lighter weight casting rod, and I am considering going with smaller sized guides to less the weight of the build and make the rod tip more sensitive, however, I do not want to go so small that I start having performance issues with the guides --- or even that it becomes too difficult to string the rod. What suggestions are people willing to share ?

Thank you

I usually do 8, 6,(double foot) 5 fly guides the rest of the way. That's borderline micro, but still easy to work with.

[-Boris-]

Meanwhile I prefer a guides size of 5 on L-rods and 4,5 on Ul-rods. On ML-, M- and MH-rods I choose running guides with a size of 5,5. If I would build up a heavier rod, I would take a guide size of 6.
Personally I hate to tie smaller guides than 5 - it pushs my blood pressure up to the limit.
And I don't have the impression that smaller are much better for the sensitivity. A really good blank is much more important.

[Mattman]

5's for most of my builds.

Obviously passing knots and hardware can dictate otherwise but generally speaking a size 5 is a great size for most any freshwater application.

[Susitnasalmonguide]

Thanks for the replies. Frosty -- those sizes you mentioned are ones I'd already tried on heavier bait casting rods with good success -- although my size 5 guides I would not call fly guides. I'm leaning in that ball park -- but did not want to influence what people said with my own limited experience. Thanks for a confirmation.

Borris, I agree with you 100% wrapping 4.5's or smaller can be a pain --- especially when they slip or fall off the blank before I get the wrap completed.

Mattman, 5's are the size I already prefer for spinning rods -- and I've built quite a few with runners ranging from 4.5's -- 6's. I currently own some 4.5 Torzite belly and running guides that I'd been wondering what I should do with. I don't think I want to build another spinning rod with guides that small -- have you had any different luck with 4.5 guides on bait casting rods compared to spinning rods?

Susitnasalmonguide

[Frosty]

Thanks for the replies. Frosty -- those sizes you mentioned are ones I'd already tried on heavier bait casting rods with good success -- although my size 5 guides I would not call fly guides. I'm leaning in that ball park -- but did not want to influence what people said with my own limited experience. Thanks for a confirmation.

Yeah I refer to running guides as fly guides, lol my bad sorry for the confusion.

[IlliniDawg01]

I usually do 8, 6,(double foot) 5 fly guides the rest of the way. That's borderline micro, but still easy to work with.

8 Double-Foot striper, 6 Double-Foot choke, 5 Single-Foot Runners, and 5 Tip-Top is pretty much an ideal mid-small sized guide train IMO. Plenty big enough to pass leader knots and debris and easy to thread. Small enough that they are super lightweight and don't look large on the blank.

If you are doing a spiral wrap I would adjust it a bit to 7 DF striper (0 degrees/top), 6 DF (45-60 degrees on side), 5.5 DF (120-135 degrees on side), then 5 Runners and Tip Top (180 degrees on bottom). I would string it up and eyeball the line as it travels through the guides to make sure the line stays off the blank under load and makes smooth transitions throughout.

For my ML/UL builds I will go smaller yet and do 6 DF, 5 SF, then 4.5 SF runners. I would only do 4's if they are Torzites, but I would never spend that much money for guides. The small striper guides don't seem to negatively affect performance for me though I suppose it is possible.

DaveJ

[Mattman]

Mattman, 5's are the size I already prefer for spinning rods -- and I've built quite a few with runners ranging from 4.5's -- 6's. I currently own some 4.5 Torzite belly and running guides that I'd been wondering what I should do with. I don't think I want to build another spinning rod with guides that small -- have you had any different luck with 4.5 guides on bait casting rods compared to spinning rods?

I actually have had two customers not be happy with smaller guides on a spinning rod. One, a UL rod. I've not had that with casting rods. So, I've had better reception to smaller guides on baitcasters.

My view is that it doesn't matter whether its a UL rod or a heavy rod, passing the line is what's critical. Not the rods power. You always need to know what the line and the fishing conditions are before deciding on what size guides to use. Stiff, memory ridden, mono, even in light poundage, is horrible to pass thru small guides. With a heavier rod you are more than likely casting heavier baits which aid in overcoming stubborn line. A light UL bait doesn't. And I do think spinning is worse than casting due to the way the line comes off the spool.

For what its worth...a 4.5 Torzite roughly has the same ring ID as a 5 SiC. So, if you're using Torzites, you can downsize and still have the same ID.

[Susitnasalmonguide]

Thanks again for each of the thoughts you shared. I've ordered 3 blanks that I might build as bait cast rods -- all are nice sensitive blanks (as Boris suggested). I am planning to build with my 4.5 Trozite guides for runners on one rod and 5's for the runners on the other 2 rods.

Frosty, thanks for clarification on what type runners you are using. I was wondering if you where using small ceramics or actual snake guides (no way I would have used plain metal snake guides, anyway.

DaveJ thanks for your discussion of the different options you use. I am planning on using the 4.5 guides on the lightest blank I purchased -- an ML.

Mattman, thanks for explaining in detail your experiences and thoughts. All seem logical to me.

Susitnasalmonguide

[toddmc]

The 5mm running guides are what I'm using on all of my recent builds. I struggle with getting the line through smaller guides. I'm not ready for reading glasses or a magnifying glass in my boat.

[spoonplugger1]

On a casting rod once you have the line under control the size doesn't really affect performance even with the stiffer fluorocarbons, etc. It's a straight line run out of the guides unlike a spinning rod, after all the line runs out of a pretty small guide on the reel long before it gets to the rod. I use #3s a lot and have no problems with my old 65 year old eyes, but I've been near sighted since the age of 10 and close has never been a problem. I've passed my braid to fluoro connection just fine through them. If you can thread a needle, none of these guides are a problem, the newer designs have a longer foot, making them easier to wrap.
Maybe using guides down to a #4 for over 30 years has adapted my way of thinking more than others that haven't, and it's not been such a big jump for me.