NRX Guide replacement?

[PikeRoadBassn]

I know the REC Recoils have a love hate following. I am looking at a few NRX's, and in doing some research, notied the combination guide train they use. I prefer, and have always preferred Fuji Titanium SIC guides. Is there much of a weight difference in the 2 guides, and would the added weight give the rod a "dead" feel? If this is the wrong sub section, I apologize.

[Mattman]

It depends on the train and styles and sizes how much weight you can get rid of. But I swapped out Recoils on a customer rod for titanium framed SiC's and pulled quite a bit of weight out of the setup.

[Jdmbassman]

So titanium SiC's weigh less than the RECoils ?

Would Torzites be even less ? How much weight are we talking ?

One other question that springs to mind, would Torzites improve sensitivity over the RECoils ?

[IlliniDawg01]

A whole set of Stainless Alconite Fuji K mid-micro guides including the tip top weighs under 5g. Titanium Torzites a half size smaller or the same size should be crazy lite.

DaveJ

[-Boris-]

Someone in a german rodbuilding forum has measured different guide weights and the values forr the different 4.0 KTs are:
Alconites 0,08g
SiCs 0,07g
Titanium with SiCs 0,05g
Torzites 0,04g

I personally prefer the Alconites, because I don't believe that the weight makes a big difference by such small guides.

The biggest benefit of the Torzites is probably the wider ring-ID.

Maybe I would take Torzites, if I want to use a ringsize of 6 for the running guides and still keep the blank fast - but this would be a relativ expensive solution.

[IlliniDawg01]

Someone in a german rodbuilding forum has measured different guide weights and the values forr the different 4.0 KTs are:
Alconites 0,08g
SiCs 0,07g
Titanium with SiCs 0,05g
Torzites 0,04g

I personally prefer the Alconites, because I don't believe that the weight makes a big difference by such small guides.

The biggest benefit of the Torzites is probably the wider ring-ID.

Maybe I would take Torzites, if I want to use a ringsize of 6 for the running guides and still keep the blank fast - but this would be a relativ expensive solution.

You definitely get what you pay for. By that I mean the numbers are real. They get lighter and harder the more you pay. That being said, in a blind test I would be shocked if anyone could tell the difference between the same sized SS Alconites and the Titanium SiCs. Heck, my digital scale won't even register a weight for the entire casting rod guide set unless I add an extra 5 grams. If the electronics can't detect that small a weight, I'm certain my hands can't.

Being able to go a half size smaller with the Torzites might make a slightly discernable difference, but even then it would probably be confirmation bias. The smaller guides might be more aesthetically pleasing though, even if the performance is essentially a wash.

Like I've said before, unless you have money to burn, the SS Alconite K's are an amazing value.

DaveJ

[Mattman]

That being said, in a blind test I would be shocked if anyone could tell the difference between the same sized SS Alconites and the Titanium SiCs. Heck, my digital scale won't even register a weight for the entire casting rod guide set unless I add an extra 5 grams.

I can feel it. Immediately. When I pick a rod off my stand and have forgotten that they're not titannum, my immediate thought is "why is this thing so heavy".

My powder scale easily weighs the difference. The lightest guide on the market is significantly heavier than a couple grains of gunpowder.

[-Boris-]

They get lighter and harder the more you pay.

...and louder. Especially the recoil and titanium guides seems to be very loud, if you use a braid that isn't extra sleek.

[IlliniDawg01]

That being said, in a blind test I would be shocked if anyone could tell the difference between the same sized SS Alconites and the Titanium SiCs. Heck, my digital scale won't even register a weight for the entire casting rod guide set unless I add an extra 5 grams.

I can feel it. Immediately. When I pick a rod off my stand and have forgotten that they're not titannum, my immediate thought is "why is this thing so heavy".

My powder scale easily weighs the difference. The lightest guide on the market is significantly heavier than a couple grains of gunpowder.

Seriously? That is impressive.

I doubt I can tell a difference between a 3.5oz and 4oz rod with similar balance and the difference should be less than that.

DaveJ

[PBP]

It depends on the train and styles and sizes how much weight you can get rid of. But I swapped out Recoils on a customer rod for titanium framed SiC's and pulled quite a bit of weight out of the setup.

Roughly, what it would cost me to replace guides on my NRX 843 with Torzites? I don't like the recoils, sound and the way they wrapped. Not sure if I save any weight buy doing it and what impact it will have on sensitivity? I believe recoils are really transmitting the vibration very well and perhaps is one of the reasons g loomis is still using them? Thank you.

[Mattman]

Roughly, what it would cost me to replace guides on my NRX 843 with Torzites? I don't like the recoils, sound and the way they wrapped.

That's not a question with an easy answer. There are a lot of variables. New guide layout? Spiral wrapped? More single foot guides? How much work does the blank require? Etc? I think a set of Torzites is going to run you about $140. Your builder will have about 2 hours into removing Recoils and getting the blank cleaned up, on the low end of things. Unless you can hand deliver your rod, you're at least $60 into freight.

Not sure if I save any weight buy doing it and what impact it will have on sensitivity?

A move to Torzites in a spiral wrap will pull weight out of the overall package. A reduction in weight is going to translate into an increase in sensitivity.

I went from 41 grains of Recoils to 25 grains of Titanium SiC's on one of my rewraps.

I believe recoils are really transmitting the vibration very well and perhaps is one of the reasons g loomis is still using them?

The move to Recoils was driven by a perceived lack in warranty claims. Not sensitivity increase. I'm not a believer in Recoils inherently being more sensitive than other guides. They're too soft. Any sensitivity gains are from a reduction in weight over heavier guide packages, in my opinion.

[PBP]

Roughly, what it would cost me to replace guides on my NRX 843 with Torzites? I don't like the recoils, sound and the way they wrapped.

That's not a question with an easy answer. There are a lot of variables. New guide layout? Spiral wrapped? More single foot guides? How much work does the blank require? Etc? I think a set of Torzites is going to run you about $140. Your builder will have about 2 hours into removing Recoils and getting the blank cleaned up, on the low end of things. Unless you can hand deliver your rod, you're at least $60 into freight.

Not sure if I save any weight buy doing it and what impact it will have on sensitivity?

A move to Torzites in a spiral wrap will pull weight out of the overall package. A reduction in weight is going to translate into an increase in sensitivity.

I went from 41 grains of Recoils to 25 grains of Titanium SiC's on one of my rewraps.

I believe recoils are really transmitting the vibration very well and perhaps is one of the reasons g loomis is still using them?

The move to Recoils was driven by a perceived lack in warranty claims. Not sensitivity increase. I'm not a believer in Recoils inherently being more sensitive than other guides. They're too soft. Any sensitivity gains are from a reduction in weight over heavier guide packages, in my opinion.

Thank you for response. I am not an expert in rod building, so hard for me to tell what would be the best guides placement, size to put and have no experience with spiral wrap at all. I need to rely on rod builder advise regarding what is the best route to go about it. Unfortunately I don't really know anyone at this moment. NRX 843 is in excellent shape and I am primarily using it for bottom contact taxes rig. Love the rod and what t make it perfect )