Micro Guides....what should I get?

[sdfd504]

OK so I am having two custom rods made and I am having a hard time deciding on what micro guides I want to have put on them? Neither one will be used with braid and I don't care to spend the money for better guides if they are worth it. Any help would be appreciated.

[falcon]

I'm a big fan of alconites. Their proven long lasting performers.

[Boondock]

Have used fuji alconites ss frames in a few different sizes... If you go with those get the 4's if you are running no knots through em.
I prefer the titanium frames though... They are a lot harder to bend and seem to hold up better against rod lockers and anything else that might hit em.
Think you can get the alconite ring which will save a few $$$ but all of mine have been sic frames. These go down to 3.5's which I like too.

[North Branch]

Personally, I believe any high end blank deserves TiSic's. A lot of money for more sensitivity... but worth it in my opinion.

[Mattman]

Stainless Alconites are about the lowest grade of guide that I'd consider.

Titanium Alconites would be a good compromise.

Titanium SiC is where I would be.


Personally...I still think Fuji makes the best guides out there. Metal alloys, frame style, frame gracefulness, frame durability, quality control.

Personally...on a $400 - $600 custom rod...it deserves the best guide. Saving a few bucks bucks on guides (or any other critical component) is like buying tires for your brand new Corvette at the feed/farm store.

[grub_man]

Blake,

I look at it a little different than many. When I think about guide frames and inserts, I consider what I'm trying to accomplish with the guide train, particularly with micros. Total weight differences between Ti and steel frames become much smaller, making for a more even playing field.

If I want a guide train that is plenty capable of handling bass and other freshwater fishing without breaking the blank, it will be aluminum oxide, alconite, or some other standard ceramic ring.

If I want a durable guide that can take a little more abuse, it will be zirconia rings.

If the build is for an application where hard fast running fish are involved, the rings should be SiC.

As far as Ti vs. steel frames, steel tends to handle bending back into shape a little more than titanium. So for someone that is tough on gear, it will be steel frames. Titanium can handle the salt much better than steel, so for that environment, Ti gets the nod.

So, in the end, for ultimate performance I would choose Ti-SiCs, but for a more than adequate performance it would be steel with aluminum oxide or zirconia rings.

As far as guides, all of the brands I've worked with have been very nice. Each has its pros and cons, but when it comes to tip tops, you won't find a better one than Kigan's design.

[Snyder Rods]

- The micro guides are so small and light, there would be no noticeable difference between them and titanium guides on a bass rod. In some cases, the steel guides are actually lighter anyway.

- But titanium will resist salt water corrosion better.

- Sic rings have higher hardness ratings and better heat dissipation, but I don't know that you would ever notice a difference over economy-priced aluminum oxide rings. In fact, the aluminum oxide rings in most cases have a lower coefficient of friction. Note that there is a diffrence between smooth and slick.

I would go with aluminum oxide inserts and save your money for things that will give you real benefits. I think that's all you need. I like the Batson micros.

[jimmyb]

Here are some weights:

KTAG 4 = 1.4 grains (stainless steel K series alconite)
TKTAG 4 = .9 grains (TI framed K series alconite)

difference is .5 grains (yes, i measured them on my powder scale because my standard electronic scale did not have enough resolution).

retail cost difference (mudhole): $2.50

cost difference per grain: $5.00/grain. Converted to ounces (437.5 grains/ounce)= $2187.5/ounce!!!!

Last check of gold was $1560/oz!

Micro guides are inherently more durable and seldom get snagged on lockers because of their low profile. Going to a TI framed micro is a waste in my book for any freshwater fishing. Going to a SIC guide for freshwater fish is also a waste in my book. However, one must realize that i come from a "bang for the buck" building perspective. I have no issue spending money where it makes sense (especially for a high quality blank). However, i do have issues spending $$$ to save a couple of GRAINS just to impress your friends (and most of my bubba bass fishing buddies have no clue about TI, alconite, or SIC). With that said, if you have the money and having the absolute best makes you feel better, then spend away!

Micros and knots: I have seen so MUCH misinformation on this posted on the internet. Usually by people who have never fished micros. Fuji #4 micros will easily pass knots that are used with 10-50# braid and 15-30# flouro leaders. A couple of keys: Use an albright knot (using the smaller dia line to make the wraps). Trim the tag ends very close to the knot.

One final note, I did a build before Christmas with the Kigan Z series guides as an alternative to the fuji KTAG. I really liked their longer foot as it made it much easier to wrap. The Kigan's run a bit bigger than a same number in Fuji guides. I also really like the Kigan tip tops...

[Tokugawa]

Here are some weights:

KTAG 4 = 1.4 grains (stainless steel K series alconite)
TKTAG 4 = .9 grains (TI framed K series alconite)

difference is .5 grains (yes, i measured them on my powder scale because my standard electronic scale did not have enough resolution).

retail cost difference (mudhole): $2.50

cost difference per grain: $5.00/grain. Converted to ounces (437.5 grains/ounce)= $2187.5/ounce!!!!

Last check of gold was $1560/oz!

Micro guides are inherently more durable and seldom get snagged on lockers because of their low profile. Going to a TI framed micro is a waste in my book for any freshwater fishing.

Agreed. For micros, I go SS/Alconite. For larger guides, there is enough weight saving with Ti frames and SiC rings to make it worth a discussion.

[white03]

Thanx to grub_man and JimmyB for bringing reasonable logic to the discussion.

TiSiC on a bass rod for fresh water is overkill. Reminds me of the $400 toilet seat the government bought..

Used Keegan micro's from Swampland on my last build and am very happy with them.

Bill

[North Branch]

This turned out to be an excellent thread, and there are obviously a LOT more folks who know more about this subject than me. However, here's my take on it...

As for the weight... I read post after post after post where people want the most sensitive rod for their money. From everything I've been told, given the same blank, with the same size guides, the rod with the lightest quality guides will be more sensitive. Sure, most anglers may, or may not feel the difference. However, if you have the lightest guides... there is no doubt in your mind.

As for the price, sure, if you are trying to build a rod on a budget, you can save some bucks and still have a great fishing rod. However, if you are one of the many folks in here that spend has literally thousands of dollars on rods and reels, then spending an extra $75 or so on guides on a high end custom rods shouldn't even be a concern.

In my case, I originally planned on getting only one custom rod, so I wanted what I considered to be the best blank, with the best guides and the best possible components. I probably shouldn't have done that, as now my other high end off the shelf rods don't really cut it, and I will probably be selling them to have another custom rod built. When I do, I will take the same approach... I wanted, and will continue to want "overkill".

Again however... that's just my opinion.

[5poundhooker]

I am with jimmyb on this one. I have been exclusively using K-series Alconite stainless on my last builds and love them. They are much tougher than the regular Fuji's and sit just a tad higher which I like. The diameters are small compared to other brands so if you like a size 4 in Am. Tac or some others go with a 4.5-5 in Fuji K-series(maybe all Fuji micros). The expense of SIC or titanium is not worth the extra dough. I have never noticed any casting gain, sensitivity, or weight reduction using Micros of either. I am sure there is a difference, you just won't notice it.

[Tokugawa]

As for the price, sure, if you are trying to build a rod on a budget, you can save some bucks and still have a great fishing rod. However, if you are one of the many folks in here that spend has literally thousands of dollars on rods and reels, then spending an extra $75 or so on guides on a high end custom rods shouldn't even be a concern.

It more like where do you spend the money for the best return on investment. Every build has a budget, whether it is just $200, $500 or even $1000 for a RedlineRobert horny toad rod.

For $75 (just for discussion), the question is not "can I get better guides?". It is, "where is this best used?" For instance, $75 may get a lighter reel, or upgrade the reel to get a better spool or lighter handle, or even get a better blank. If everything else is utterly optimized, and there is money left over, then a Ti/SiC guide train is something to consider.

But that is just me.

[jowens66]

Whats Mattmans old saying......better to have and not need than to need and not have. I will save my money till i can put top shelf components on.

[fshn4lmt]

Kframe alconites.Best bang for the buck,and they dont bend over easily like the american tackle.