Tenryu UL Rods?

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hungry_cow
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Tenryu UL Rods?

Postby hungry_cow » Tue May 01, 2018 5:46 am

How are the Tenryu rods? They look amazing but aren't cheap either. How would they compare in fishing to say the GLX trout series or Megabass Destroyer f0 UL rods. I have a Phase 3 f0-68XS deep throat that I really like but could use something just a tad softer, I was looking at the Tenryu Rayz Alter RZA62UL-S, anyone use it?

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Re: Tenryu UL Rods?

Postby Allsorts » Fri May 04, 2018 6:45 am

I've just got in the Rayz Spectra 71 ML. Lovely rod, fit and finish very good. However is a bit lighter in a power sense than I expected. Action is more regular than ''Native' style rods usually are, I'd almost say it was an 'Area' rod.
With a 14"' smallie it was about at full stretch. Casting weight rating is too high, 18g might be ok for slow lob by based on Western standards I'd say 12g realistic maximum.
Bottom line, it is likely to be lower powered than you would expect, especially compared to a bass stick and certainly softer than a GL trout stick. Unless you really want a featherweight for panfish and creek trout, I'd not recommend one. The Smith Lagless range is another option if you want a 'bass-like' trout stick. I had one and sold it as it was too fast for my application.
Last edited by Allsorts on Sat May 05, 2018 12:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Tenryu UL Rods?

Postby hungry_cow » Fri May 04, 2018 8:17 am

Looking or an ultra light bluegill and crappie rod. Heaviest would be 1/32 oz jig with little curly tail for crappie and 1/64 oz for bluegill. So it might work out good as I am looking for something a tad softer than the G Loomis trout rods.

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Re: Tenryu UL Rods?

Postby Allsorts » Fri May 04, 2018 9:08 am

If UL jigs are going to be your primary go to, the Alter might not be ideal.

To use a bass rod analogy:

- Area rods (like the Alter) are basically like UL cranking rods, regular taper designed for micro spoons and plugs, generally lures retrieved using the reel only
- Native or Stream rods are like jerkbait rods, usual retrieves are twitching + reeling - similar to how you would fish a 110, just a lot quicker. Rod tapers are usually moderate fast like a good jerkbait or topwater rod
- Aji & Mebaru rods (Alphahawk has posted a lot about these rods on this forum) are like UL jig or worm rods, very fast taper with good backbone (relatively speaking for UL)

Based on your application and budget, I'd suggest you also consider a solid tip Aji rod by Yamaga Blanks, Daiwa, Shimano etc. Chris at http://www.finesse-fishing.com/ajing-rods-mebaru-rods.html has lots of useful info and a great range on offer and no need for shipping in from OS. Fishing UL jigs on 2-3lb fluorocarbon with a solid tip JDM rod is next level fun - super sensitive!
Last edited by Allsorts on Fri May 04, 2018 9:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Tenryu UL Rods?

Postby Allsorts » Fri May 04, 2018 9:10 am

For crappie on UL jigs, this rod https://www.digitaka.com/list.php?category=64&series=ROCK%20FISH&item=ICECUBE has received rave reviews...

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Re: Tenryu UL Rods?

Postby hungry_cow » Fri May 04, 2018 6:55 pm

I don't really want to go over $400. But $150 to $400 works, and would like to be in the 6 to 7 foot range preferably at least 6ft 6. Which one of these would you recommend for bluegill and crappie fishing with 1/64 to 1/32 oz jigs on 2 or 3 lb line?

Shimano Soare BB Ajing S610LS Ajing

Daiwa Ajing X 68L-S

Something else? Looking at the rods on finesse-finesse fishing.com so they don't have to be shipped overseas.

Thanks!

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Re: Tenryu UL Rods?

Postby Allsorts » Fri May 04, 2018 10:50 pm

I am not familiar with the Daiwa rod - it's a lot heavier than the Soare and based on my experience with another Shimano Aji style rod, the Taftec solid tip is amazingly strong for it's tiny diameter and performs very well. Personally I'd favour the Soare.

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Re: Tenryu UL Rods?

Postby Alphahawk » Sun May 06, 2018 6:25 am

hungry_cow wrote:I don't really want to go over $400. But $150 to $400 works, and would like to be in the 6 to 7 foot range preferably at least 6ft 6. Which one of these would you recommend for bluegill and crappie fishing with 1/64 to 1/32 oz jigs on 2 or 3 lb line?

Shimano Soare BB Ajing S610LS Ajing

Daiwa Ajing X 68L-S

Something else? Looking at the rods on finesse-finesse fishing.com so they don't have to be shipped overseas.

Thanks!


You won’t go wrong listening to Allsorts. His knowledge helped me buy a lot of the different rods I have now and I am not disappointed with any of them. I also would favor the Shimano over the Daiwa. But if your main use is for crappie and Gills I think you would be far better off with a Mebaru rod. Allsorts mentioned the Ice Cube line...and yes they are costly but oh so worth it. But if your mind is on the 2 rods mentioned I would go with the Soare.

Regards

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Re: Tenryu UL Rods?

Postby hungry_cow » Mon May 07, 2018 7:58 am

Thanks for the help! Yea for panfish its hard for me to justify paying over $400 plus international shipping if I can also get a great rod under $200.

Will stick with the Shimano Soare series based on recommendations. For the weights I am using and since its for bluegill and crappie which of the below models would you recommend? Both have the solid tip but one is the Light Ajing and one the UL Mebaru. Will probably be fishing the light end of the range around the 1/64 oz jigs tipped with a piece of worm / small minnow or little grub more than the 1/32 oz that would be the max weight I would use.

Soare BB Ajing S610LS Ajing

Soare BB S700SULS Mebaru

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Re: Tenryu UL Rods?

Postby Allsorts » Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:25 am

Quick update on the Tenryu Rayz Spectra 71 ML for the benefit of anyone researching these rods or considering buying a JDM trout rod. I initially used the rod with a Vanquish 2500 and a Japanese 8x braid (13lbs/PE0.6). The whole package was somewhat underwhelming. I threw off twice (using a 20' FC leader and FG knot) as the guide train isn't right for braid, there being slightly too few guides too widely spaced. The rod also felt too soft when fighting fish and when doing what the Europeans call a 'twitching' retrieve, things felt clunky.

This weekend I rigged up as a Japanese trout fisher would, with a 1000 size reel and skinny monofilament. Different rod. Casting was perfect, twitching was effortless and the whole thing felt balanced and in tune. The fishing was terrible so no fish fought but I believe the experience would have been better as the line stretch would prevent the rod 'bottoming' out as quickly.

The main takeaway for me was that Japanese trout rods are generally designed around mono rather than braid. The blank actions, guide trains etc are suited for use with mono rather than braid. I recall using another Smith trout rod with FC and it didn't work especially well - the guides were small and fine for use with soft Japanese mono (like Varivas Super Trout Advance or similar) but just too small for FC.

Those of us who fish UL often use braids or fused lines - if buying JDM UL class rods, it's worth checking what sort of line they are designed to be used with. It will likely be mono or braid & FC. Performance may not be ideal if you use the 'wrong' lines.

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Re: Tenryu UL Rods?

Postby Alphahawk » Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:16 pm

Allsorts wrote:Quick update on the Tenryu Rayz Spectra 71 ML for the benefit of anyone researching these rods or considering buying a JDM trout rod. I initially used the rod with a Vanquish 2500 and a Japanese 8x braid (13lbs/PE0.6). The whole package was somewhat underwhelming. I threw off twice (using a 20' FC leader and FG knot) as the guide train isn't right for braid, there being slightly too few guides too widely spaced. The rod also felt too soft when fighting fish and when doing what the Europeans call a 'twitching' retrieve, things felt clunky.

This weekend I rigged up as a Japanese trout fisher would, with a 1000 size reel and skinny monofilament. Different rod. Casting was perfect, twitching was effortless and the whole thing felt balanced and in tune. The fishing was terrible so no fish fought but I believe the experience would have been better as the line stretch would prevent the rod 'bottoming' out as quickly.

The main takeaway for me was that Japanese trout rods are generally designed around mono rather than braid. The blank actions, guide trains etc are suited for use with mono rather than braid. I recall using another Smith trout rod with FC and it didn't work especially well - the guides were small and fine for use with soft Japanese mono (like Varivas Super Trout Advance or similar) but just too small for FC.

Those of us who fish UL often use braids or fused lines - if buying JDM UL class rods, it's worth checking what sort of line they are designed to be used with. It will likely be mono or braid & FC. Performance may not be ideal if you use the 'wrong' lines.


Great info. I just recently purchased a Palms Egeria 6’ 4” XUL. It cast like a dream with some Varivas trout line on it. Every time I cast it I think about my Fine Tail Banshee 6’ 7” rod that does not cast well at all except with braided line. I think about your remarks a long time back about that rod needing another guide. I agree with you. I think the lack of that guide has affected casting with mono.....at least that is what I think.....I have no way of proving that theory. The more JDM rods I buy the more I am looking for a line with the qualities of the soft Japanese lines without the price.

Regards

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Re: Tenryu UL Rods?

Postby Allsorts » Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:58 pm

Locally we have excellent Sufix monos down to 5lbs (actual) which are good value, $8/600m. They are pre-stretched, .18mm as I recall. There may be an equivalent Sufix line Stateside. I rate them as nearly as good as the Varivas line I mentioned. More expensive but available in bulk is Stroft, you'll need to get it from Germany. Absolutely outstanding. They do a few styles, I like the ABR, the GTM is slightly softer and thinner.

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Re: Tenryu UL Rods?

Postby CM_Stewart » Thu Jul 12, 2018 8:19 am

Allsorts wrote:
The main takeaway for me was that Japanese trout rods are generally designed around mono rather than braid.



I think you are right, but I would take it a step further. I think they are designed for use with a particular line, fishing venue, and lure choice in mind. I think the rod, line, and lure were intended to work together as a system, not as a collection of independent parts. Straying very far away from those design parameters and that design philosophy will probably give less than ideal results.

Alphahawk, you have much more experience with JDM rods than I do, but I wonder if spending north of $400 for a rod but trying to save $8 on a spool of line might be penny wise and pound foolish. Even if you respool frequently, you won't save that much money and you might never experience the full enjoyment that the rod could offer.
Chris Stewart
(affiliations: TenkaraBum.com, Finesse-Fishing.com)

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Re: Tenryu UL Rods?

Postby Allsorts » Thu Jul 12, 2018 8:51 am

Good observation Chris, I generally don't stray too far from the lure categories associated with a particular rod style. I was fortunate to get a gold plated grounding in the natural trout game from a Japanese guy who used minnows / twitching style only. He was dismissive of spinners and spoons as they didn't generate the reaction bites he was looking for. He was absolutely deadly on stream. Like you, I developed a strong aversion to trebles and used singles mostly. I tied my own assists which worked ok but hook up percentages suffered for sure.
It was my experiences that big minnows (65-70mm) outfished spinners and spoons easily in good conditions in freestone rivers. Small minnows prompted a 'feeding' bite rather than a 'reaction' bite which drew out bigger fish responding territorially. The whole trout streamer thing is based on the same idea, however more fun to use a spinning rod than chunk a shooting head all day. I saw him use minnows up to 13cm to get a reaction in some conditions. Topic for another thread maybe...

I like what you've done with store and am wondering why you haven't stocked the Smith AR-S and Niakis spinners yet? Genuinely don't twist line and are lethal on panfish, bass, trout you name it.

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Re: Tenryu UL Rods?

Postby Alphahawk » Thu Jul 12, 2018 7:41 pm

CM_Stewart wrote:
Allsorts wrote:
The main takeaway for me was that Japanese trout rods are generally designed around mono rather than braid.



I think you are right, but I would take it a step further. I think they are designed for use with a particular line, fishing venue, and lure choice in mind. I think the rod, line, and lure were intended to work together as a system, not as a collection of independent parts. Straying very far away from those design parameters and that design philosophy will probably give less than ideal results.

Alphahawk, you have much more experience with JDM rods than I do, but I wonder if spending north of $400 for a rod but trying to save $8 on a spool of line might be penny wise and pound foolish. Even if you respool frequently, you won't save that much money and you might never experience the full enjoyment that the rod could offer.


Well I do respool often and I get my line for free...without going into details my 2# test line is not truly 2# test....as is the case with most lines sold in the USA. My regular so called 2# test line is .16mm. It has been tested a couple of times by the IGFA for line class records and tested once at 2.5 and once at 3. For instance during white bass season where I will catch 100 fish or more a day I will re-spool maybe after fishing 3 days with new line. Catching that many drag pulling fish on 2# test will put some twist in your line no matter how hard you try not to reel when they are pulling drag. One of the reasons I love JDM reels so much are the shallow spools....90 yards of line is plenty and I get better casting distance. I may start buying all my line out of Japan...time will tell....but I have kept one reel spooled up with high end line out of Japan for well over a year now....but am down to only a couple of filler spools left. So I’m going to have to get off the fence soon. Your theory on the use of line...lure, and a particular rod I think is sound. I own 4 trout rods...a couple of Fine Tail Banshees...an Daiwa Iprimi solid tip, and a Palms Egeria solid tip. I’m using a Trout Magnet on a 1/64....1/32 and 1/16 ounce jig head. None of those rods are the best at catching trout with a Trout Magnet.....but they weren’t designed to fish a micro plastic for trout. The rod that I spent north of $400 on fishes like a dream no matter the line..the Tict Ice Cube Rockin’ Drift. It truly is the worlds best crappie rod for cast and retrieve fishing. I have to be careful in trying to fish lines that are below say the .11 mark. I’ve tried some .90mm and while I loved it I literally could not see it...had an extremely hard time in tying a knot. But the search goes on. I too like what you’ve done with your site and refer folks there often. Im going to continue to purchase and give reviews as best I can. Trying to decide if I want to try some of the Daiwa AGS rods out. I lost an insert on the Ice Cube and have new Torzite guides on the way from Japan but I need to find out if Daiwa sells replacement AGS guides. Do you know if bulk spools of line are sold in the Japanese stores? I know you can buy the 3 packs...and once I saw a 6 pack of filler spools but have never seen bulk spools on any of the sites.

Regards


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