How come other manufacturers don’s use as much salt as Yamamoto

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TK_duluthbass
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How come other manufacturers don’s use as much salt as Yamamoto

Post by TK_duluthbass » Sat Dec 01, 2018 7:53 am

The main thing that sets Yamamoto apart from the imitators, imo, is their salt content. Is salt that expensive? Does it cause issues when mass producing plastics? Senkos knockoffs are made by just about all their competitors in the soft plastic market, yet I haven’t found any other senko style plastics that have as much salt. There’s got to be a rational explanation of why there aren’t knock off senkos that are exactly the same and half the price. Same goes for all their other salted plastics too.

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Re: How come other manufacturers don’s use as much salt as Yamamoto

Post by hoohoorjoo » Sat Dec 01, 2018 8:46 am

Higher salt content displaces the primary material, which is plastisol. This is why they get torn up so easily, usually one or two fish and they are done. With so little plastic, they just don't hold up. Go to youtube and look up the videos comparing senkos to yum dingers. The senko falls faster and actually has less action. I like the dinger a lot better myself, due to a lower price and greater durability. Oh, and they catch a lot of fish for me, too.
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Re: How come other manufacturers don’s use as much salt as Yamamoto

Post by TK_duluthbass » Sat Dec 01, 2018 10:08 am

I throw senkos weightless wacky hooked and dingers dont work for me wacky style without a weighted hook, which gives it a different action. I catch lots of fish on one senko with an o-ring. You didn’t really address any of the questions in my post. I know they tear up quicker, pretty sure everyone knows that.

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Re: How come other manufacturers don’s use as much salt as Yamamoto

Post by hoohoorjoo » Sat Dec 01, 2018 10:47 am

TK_duluthbass wrote:I throw senkos weightless wacky hooked and dingers dont work for me wacky style without a weighted hook, which gives it a different action. I catch lots of fish on one senko with an o-ring. You didn’t really address any of the questions in my post. I know they tear up quicker, pretty sure everyone knows that.
How did I not address your question? You asked why other manufacturers don't make a heavily-salted bait like the Senko for less $$$. I explained that the high salt content displaces the plastic in the bait and makes them less durable. A lot of manufacturers don't want that negative association with their product, so most don't use that much salt in their baits. Also, not everyone wacky rigs a senko exclusively. I personally fish them weightless T-rigged mostly, working them quickly like a fluke. An o-ring obviously doesn't work that way. If you want a cheaper alternative, I suggest contacting a small-business baitmaker. They can put in as much salt as you'd like and will still likely be cheaper than $9 for 5 or 6 baits.
Try not to let your mind wander. It is much too small to be outside unsupervised.

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Re: How come other manufacturers don’s use as much salt as Yamamoto

Post by Aquaftm45 » Sat Dec 01, 2018 10:52 am

TK_duluthbass wrote:I throw senkos weightless wacky hooked and dingers dont work for me wacky style without a weighted hook, which gives it a different action. I catch lots of fish on one senko with an o-ring. You didn’t really address any of the questions in my post. I know they tear up quicker, pretty sure everyone knows that.
Your primary question was in your title to your post. He answered that, which is "becuase they tear up quicker" Which you then conlcude that you and every one knows.
"Is salt that expensive? No, I think everyone knows that...
"Does it cause issues when mass producing plastics?" It is a more laborious process and utilizing that much salt, the formulation has to be just right and they do have a patent on the process that they utilize when incorperating the salt into the plastic.
There are some JDM products that don't have to abide by US patents and some of the products are better in my opinion. I keep these on the down low though

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Re: How come other manufacturers don’s use as much salt as Yamamoto

Post by Hobie-Wan Kenobi » Sat Dec 01, 2018 11:45 am

There are trade off inbeverythibg for fishing. More salt, more "flavor". Less durability and sinks faster.

What about balsa cranks versus plastic? People have preferences for everything.

I prefer the cheaper stickworms for 4in and longer. I prefer GY for the 3in.
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Re: How come other manufacturers don’s use as much salt as Yamamoto

Post by sarcazmo » Sat Dec 01, 2018 12:24 pm

ASAIK Senkos don't just use salt. It's a salt silica blend.

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Re: How come other manufacturers don’s use as much salt as Yamamoto

Post by TK_duluthbass » Sat Dec 01, 2018 1:13 pm

Aquaftm45 wrote:
TK_duluthbass wrote:I throw senkos weightless wacky hooked and dingers dont work for me wacky style without a weighted hook, which gives it a different action. I catch lots of fish on one senko with an o-ring. You didn’t really address any of the questions in my post. I know they tear up quicker, pretty sure everyone knows that.
Your primary question was in your title to your post. He answered that, which is "becuase they tear up quicker" Which you then conlcude that you and every one knows.
"Is salt that expensive? No, I think everyone knows that...
"Does it cause issues when mass producing plastics?" It is a more laborious process and utilizing that much salt, the formulation has to be just right and they do have a patent on the process that they utilize when incorperating the salt into the plastic.
There are some JDM products that don't have to abide by US patents and some of the products are better in my opinion. I keep these on the down low though
That’s some info I wanted. I didn’t know Yamamoto had a patented process, that would make sense. How do you know they have a patent and special process, is there an article somewhere?

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Re: How come other manufacturers don’s use as much salt as Yamamoto

Post by TK_duluthbass » Sat Dec 01, 2018 1:18 pm

hoohoorjoo wrote:
TK_duluthbass wrote:I throw senkos weightless wacky hooked and dingers dont work for me wacky style without a weighted hook, which gives it a different action. I catch lots of fish on one senko with an o-ring. You didn’t really address any of the questions in my post. I know they tear up quicker, pretty sure everyone knows that.
How did I not address your question? You asked why other manufacturers don't make a heavily-salted bait like the Senko for less $$$. I explained that the high salt content displaces the plastic in the bait and makes them less durable. A lot of manufacturers don't want that negative association with their product, so most don't use that much salt in their baits. Also, not everyone wacky rigs a senko exclusively. I personally fish them weightless T-rigged mostly, working them quickly like a fluke. An o-ring obviously doesn't work that way. If you want a cheaper alternative, I suggest contacting a small-business baitmaker. They can put in as much salt as you'd like and will still likely be cheaper than $9 for 5 or 6 baits.
No, I don’t think it really answers my question. Yamamoto sells tons of senkos and they’re on TW for $7.49. They’re super popular and there’s a reason they charge so much and sell so many. It doesn’t make sense for someone not to copy it exactly. The design of the bait is as basic as it gets. The other response saying that there is a patent on the process to add the salt makes sense and is the type of answer I was looking for. I’m not trying to talk about senko alternatives or other ways to rig it. I want to know why there isn’t an exact copy at a cheaper price from a big manufacturer.

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Re: How come other manufacturers don’s use as much salt as Yamamoto

Post by goldrod » Sat Dec 01, 2018 1:23 pm

ZOOM Z-nail was a great bait. I don’t know why they got rid of it but it would out fish many senko stylenbaits including the original
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Re: How come other manufacturers don’s use as much salt as Yamamoto

Post by TK_duluthbass » Sat Dec 01, 2018 1:41 pm

I guess it’s valid to point out that different manufacturers want alternatives instead of make an identical copy and you guys are right, it does answer part of my question. I just don’t feel like it’s the full answer. Maybe its the answer to why yum doesn’t use salt. I would think there are ways around the patent, especially since ISG has salt in their senkos. I think Yamamoto baits, in all styles of soft plastics, are usually the best even though they have some of the most basic designs. The Ika is another that’s popular and no competitors match their weight that I know of.

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Re: How come other manufacturers don’s use as much salt as Yamamoto

Post by Aquaftm45 » Sat Dec 01, 2018 2:42 pm

TK_duluthbass wrote:
That’s some info I wanted. I didn’t know Yamamoto had a patented process, that would make sense. How do you know they have a patent and special process, is there an article somewhere?
This article implies the patent on the proccess, I can't say for fact

http://www.bassdozer.com/articles/yamam ... imer.shtml

I think someone mentioned Gene Lerew has the actual patent on adding salt. The patent is listed on the GY Senko Bag. Guess he is getting paid for every plastic that has salt added, I don't know.

It amazes me at the number of elementary patents that are allowed. Like adding salt..

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Re: How come other manufacturers don’s use as much salt as Yamamoto

Post by toddmc » Sat Dec 08, 2018 10:04 am

Aquaftm45 wrote:
TK_duluthbass wrote:
That’s some info I wanted. I didn’t know Yamamoto had a patented process, that would make sense. How do you know they have a patent and special process, is there an article somewhere?
This article implies the patent on the proccess, I can't say for fact

http://www.bassdozer.com/articles/yamam ... imer.shtml

I think someone mentioned Gene Lerew has the actual patent on adding salt. The patent is listed on the GY Senko Bag. Guess he is getting paid for every plastic that has salt added, I don't know.

It amazes me at the number of elementary patents that are allowed. Like adding salt..
Funny that Bassdozer popped up on here. I saw him at Diamond Valley lake a few days ago.
I read an article on the salt patent that Larew has, and how Yamamoto uses it in the Senko, quite a few years ago. Gary was saying that it is quite expensive for him to use it. Gary was saying that the main reason that other manufacturers don't use salt in their baits is that they don't want to pay the high expense for it.

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Re: How come other manufacturers don’s use as much salt as Yamamoto

Post by hoohoorjoo » Sat Dec 08, 2018 4:28 pm

I know a baitmaker that uses sand in his baits. He says its way cheaper and takes less of it vs.salt. Only thing is that it affects the lighter colors and the baits are more opaque. They still catch fish, though.
Try not to let your mind wander. It is much too small to be outside unsupervised.

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Re: How come other manufacturers don’s use as much salt as Yamamoto

Post by hoohoorjoo » Sat Dec 08, 2018 5:06 pm

hoohoorjoo wrote:I know a baitmaker that uses sand in his baits. He says its way cheaper and takes less of it vs.salt. Only thing is that it affects the lighter colors and the baits are more opaque. They still catch fish, though.
Or more accurately, he uses sandblasting silica. Is is heavier than salt, so he uses less of it.
Try not to let your mind wander. It is much too small to be outside unsupervised.

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