Light line leader connection

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OkobojiEagle
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Re: Light line leader connection

Postby OkobojiEagle » Thu Oct 19, 2017 2:12 pm

Strewth wrote:Before claiming how great some types of knots are, they need to be tested under controlled and repeated conditions. Please read aquaholiks very long thread on braid and knot strengths on SOL.


link?

oe

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Re: Light line leader connection

Postby Strewth » Thu Oct 19, 2017 2:29 pm

Read this and download the associated spreadsheet in later posts

http://www.stripersonline.com/surftalk/ ... -progress/

Conclusion is that PR knot is the strongest, but the FG is not that far behind and is faster to tie. Forget the rest.

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BRONZEBACK32
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Re: Light line leader connection

Postby BRONZEBACK32 » Thu Oct 19, 2017 7:22 pm

Strewth wrote:Before claiming how great some types of knots are, they need to be tested under controlled and repeated conditions. Please read aquaholiks very long thread on braid and knot strengths on SOL.


Link?

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Re: Light line leader connection

Postby Strewth » Thu Oct 19, 2017 11:30 pm

BRONZEBACK32 wrote:
Strewth wrote:Before claiming how great some types of knots are, they need to be tested under controlled and repeated conditions. Please read aquaholiks very long thread on braid and knot strengths on SOL.


Link?


As mentioned above, the spreadsheet link is given in later posts of the thread. Here it is

https://www.dropbox.com/s/dtvrv8c7dho30 ... .xlsx?dl=0

The poor performance of knots other than the FG and PR are discussed in the actual thread, but you have to plough through it. Note that the % knot strength is the % of the actual breaking load capacity of the braid (not the stated breaking capacity which is found on the label). Most braids actually break at loads much greater than their stated load capacity.

http://www.stripersonline.com/surftalk/ ... -progress/

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BRONZEBACK32
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Re: Light line leader connection

Postby BRONZEBACK32 » Sat Oct 21, 2017 3:49 am

Has anyone tried the knot Shin Fukae uses?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGp4zpCzizA

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Re: Light line leader connection

Postby Brad in Texas » Sat Oct 21, 2017 12:41 pm

Shin's is just another form of Alberto/Allbright knot. It follows the same entry into the leader material loop, but he forms a second loop at the far end . . . not to materially change the knot, it doesn't, but to allow it to be wrapped "backward" to the entry point without the barrel rolls slipping forward, then out the original loop and tightened down as usual.

Most Albertos are wrapped away from the entered loop, then another set of wraps over these back toward the loop to exit.

Still, not a bad derivative, Shin's that is. I've seen it tied about a dozen different ways.

*** I should note that Shin's and most other people's hand hand and finger mechanics tying this knot are abysmal. There is a MUCH better way to tie all Alberto/Allbrights. I'll see if I can get my neighbor to video me in a few weeks showing the proper technique and post it.

Brad

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Re: Light line leader connection

Postby aquaholik » Wed Oct 25, 2017 3:03 pm

Strewth wrote:
BRONZEBACK32 wrote:
Strewth wrote:Before claiming how great some types of knots are, they need to be tested under controlled and repeated conditions. Please read aquaholiks very long thread on braid and knot strengths on SOL.


Link?


As mentioned above, the spreadsheet link is given in later posts of the thread. Here it is

https://www.dropbox.com/s/dtvrv8c7dho30 ... .xlsx?dl=0

The poor performance of knots other than the FG and PR are discussed in the actual thread, but you have to plough through it. Note that the % knot strength is the % of the actual breaking load capacity of the braid (not the stated breaking capacity which is found on the label). Most braids actually break at loads much greater than their stated load capacity.

http://www.stripersonline.com/surftalk/ ... -progress/


Strewth:

In almost all of my ABS(Actual Breaking Strength) and KBS(Knot Breaking Strength) tests in that long thread, I was testing the KBS of various knots(but mainly FG and PR knot) ON THE BRAID, and not the mono. What is the difference? The difference is that in all my tests, the mono or fluoro leader is stronger than the braid so that the mono will not break under the test. That is the only way to find the KBS of the BRAID in question.

In the opening post, I read 10 lbs braid to 6 lbs fluro. That is essentially 25 lbs ABS braid to 6 lbs fluro(probably 10-12 lbs ABS). While I'm bias and would think that the FG would still test the strongest (not counting the PR knot in this case since it almost seems pointless since the mono is much weaker than the braid), I have not tested the effect of the uni or albright knot on the MONO or FLUORO leader vs an FG knot.

In the case of 10lbs braid to 6 lbs fluro, you would also have to consider the strength of the terminal knot and what you are trying to achieve. Maybe you want the strongest knot but you don't want to retie the leader every time. So you tie and FG and a weaker uni knot at the terminal tackle end so that every time you are hung up, the FG would hold and the UNI would break where the lure is. You can tie a uni-uni on the line to leader and then a Palomar on the terminal end. In this case, your terminal knot is likely stronger than your uni-uni line to leader knot and that would be the weakest link in the setup.

But if you are just tying uni at the terminal tackle end, maybe a uni-uni or albright is strong enough at the line to leader connection.

While it's possible to tie an FG knot in soft 10 lbs braid(say Gliss or Kanzen) to 6 lbs Fluoro leader, it would be nearly impossible and too time consuming to try the same thing with slick 10 lbs Nanofil or 10 lbs Fireline to 6 lbs fluro or mono leader. So the argument against the FG knot in this case is very valid.

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Re: Light line leader connection

Postby aquaholik » Wed Oct 25, 2017 3:59 pm

Quick test:

Lightest mono I have on hand is a 15 years old Trilene XL 10 lbs test.

ABS on the Trilene XL: 10.55, 10.65 lbs
FG knot with 10 lbs J Braid :

18 wraps : 10.50 lbs KBS ( Trilene XL broke)
13 wraps(very easy to cinch down tight) : 9.65 lbs (Trilene XL broke)

Double uni knot: Spider hitch to double the J Braid 10 lbs then 7 wraps on the braid end, and 8 wraps on the mono end yields 8.60 lbs. So an 82% knot strength in the mono. So the double uni on the braid compromise the strength of the mono by only 18%. An 82% knot strength is probably indistinguishable from a 100% knot strength when the drag is only set to 30% of the leader strength.

Now of course if we are going from 10 lbs J braid to 25 lbs leader, the uni knot affect on the braid will matter and the mono leader will hold while the braid will snap at around 55-65% of it's ABS.

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Re: Light line leader connection

Postby Strewth » Wed Oct 25, 2017 6:09 pm

Aqua - With the Daichii Knot Tool 2.0, it is a snack to tie the FG with any leader/braid combo with a Rizutto finish in 1-2 mins. I regularly tie 6 lb leader/6lb braid knots with the same ease as 45 lb leader/30lb braid knots. It is now the only leader knot I use.

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BRONZEBACK32
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Re: Light line leader connection

Postby BRONZEBACK32 » Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:56 pm

That is the problem I have been having with the FG knot and thinner braid and lighter leaders, it slips right through the knot.

10 braid to 6lb flourocarbon


Hoping the palomar would brake before the FG knot.

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Re: Light line leader connection

Postby aquaholik » Thu Oct 26, 2017 8:46 am

BRONZEBACK32 wrote:That is the problem I have been having with the FG knot and thinner braid and lighter leaders, it slips right through the knot.

10 braid to 6lb flourocarbon


Hoping the palomar would brake before the FG knot.


What brand of braid is that 10 lbs braid?

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BRONZEBACK32
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Re: Light line leader connection

Postby BRONZEBACK32 » Thu Oct 26, 2017 12:32 pm

aquaholik wrote:
BRONZEBACK32 wrote:That is the problem I have been having with the FG knot and thinner braid and lighter leaders, it slips right through the knot.

10 braid to 6lb flourocarbon


Hoping the palomar would brake before the FG knot.


What brand of braid is that 10 lbs braid?


Maxima

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Re: Light line leader connection

Postby aquaholik » Thu Oct 26, 2017 12:35 pm

BRONZEBACK32 wrote:
aquaholik wrote:
BRONZEBACK32 wrote:That is the problem I have been having with the FG knot and thinner braid and lighter leaders, it slips right through the knot.

10 braid to 6lb flourocarbon


Hoping the palomar would brake before the FG knot.


What brand of braid is that 10 lbs braid?


Maxima


That is pretty soft braid so it should hold with 6 lbs Fluro leader. Tried 6 lbs mono as a leader?

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BRONZEBACK32
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Re: Light line leader connection

Postby BRONZEBACK32 » Thu Oct 26, 2017 12:45 pm

aquaholik wrote:
BRONZEBACK32 wrote:
aquaholik wrote:
BRONZEBACK32 wrote:That is the problem I have been having with the FG knot and thinner braid and lighter leaders, it slips right through the knot.

10 braid to 6lb flourocarbon


Hoping the palomar would brake before the FG knot.


What brand of braid is that 10 lbs braid?


Maxima


That is pretty soft braid so it should hold with 6 lbs Fluro leader. Tried 6 lbs mono as a leader?


Its the yellow, now I'm not sure why but the Yellow is stiff and really slick compared to the green maxima.


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