Every new Abu looking the same is incredibly dull and boring

[Cal]

I would personally say that it is a competition for the Zenon, simply because the reel is light. The Zillion is not a tank like the Bantam is, so if you someone is looking for a quality light reel, the Zenon and the Zillion will be on the menu.

It is not a fair comparison because being made of aluminum allows the Zillion to be offered at a lower price which will automatically make the Zillion the preferred choice.

Price point always matters when comparing product and so do the reasons behind the differences in cost.

[Polkfish1]

Oh i am not just referring to revos, but the whole line up. Do they even have more than one frame for every reel they have?

Haven't seen the new Beast series yet, but yeah, that's the standard practice for them - one frame per family with internal upgrades

As far as I know, 2023 equals a refresh for Revo and the availability of Zenon with Zenon replacing the Revo MG-X and MGXtreme (two reels that formerly shared the Revo frame).

And the Zillion is not a comp for the Zenon because Zillion is Aluminum

On a tangent, the Zillion is Aluminum but something is different between the Aluminum of the Zillion vs the Aluminum Steez A II.

How so? I’ve never handled any of the steez A’s. Does the steez A feel more solid than the zillion or vice versa?

[Johnny A]

Oh i am not just referring to revos, but the whole line up. Do they even have more than one frame for every reel they have?

Haven't seen the new Beast series yet, but yeah, that's the standard practice for them - one frame per family with internal upgrades

As far as I know, 2023 equals a refresh for Revo and the availability of Zenon with Zenon replacing the Revo MG-X and MGXtreme (two reels that formerly shared the Revo frame).

And the Zillion is not a comp for the Zenon because Zillion is Aluminum

On a tangent, the Zillion is Aluminum but something is different between the Aluminum of the Zillion vs the Aluminum Steez A II.

How so? I’ve never handled any of the steez A’s. Does the steez A feel more solid than the zillion or vice versa?

To my hands, the Steez does feel more solid, more heft/weight to it. According to japantackle.com, both reels have Zaion palming cup. The Steez is only about an ounce and a half heavier but you can feel a detectable difference.

[dragon1]

Oh i am not just referring to revos, but the whole line up. Do they even have more than one frame for every reel they have?

Haven't seen the new Beast series yet, but yeah, that's the standard practice for them - one frame per family with internal upgrades

As far as I know, 2023 equals a refresh for Revo and the availability of Zenon with Zenon replacing the Revo MG-X and MGXtreme (two reels that formerly shared the Revo frame).

And the Zillion is not a comp for the Zenon because Zillion is Aluminum

On a tangent, the Zillion is Aluminum but something is different between the Aluminum of the Zillion vs the Aluminum Steez A II.

How so? I’ve never handled any of the steez A’s. Does the steez A feel more solid than the zillion or vice versa?

To my hands, the Steez does feel more solid, more heft/weight to it. According to japantackle.com, both reels have Zaion palming cup. The Steez is only about an ounce and a half heavier but you can feel a detectable difference.

Might be the reel hood and heavier gauge aluminum on the Steez A. I know my 2019 Morethans feel extremely solid... essentially a bit nicer Steez A.

[tincanary]

I wish they'd bring back the Morrum. An updated ZX 1600 Mag with a high speed offset gearbox would be awesome. Pure Fishing has pretty much been saying no to anything Sweden made outside of 5500/6500 rehashes. They feel the future is in the Revo

[Polkfish1]

Haven't seen the new Beast series yet, but yeah, that's the standard practice for them - one frame per family with internal upgrades

As far as I know, 2023 equals a refresh for Revo and the availability of Zenon with Zenon replacing the Revo MG-X and MGXtreme (two reels that formerly shared the Revo frame).

And the Zillion is not a comp for the Zenon because Zillion is Aluminum

On a tangent, the Zillion is Aluminum but something is different between the Aluminum of the Zillion vs the Aluminum Steez A II.

How so? I’ve never handled any of the steez A’s. Does the steez A feel more solid than the zillion or vice versa?

To my hands, the Steez does feel more solid, more heft/weight to it. According to japantackle.com, both reels have Zaion palming cup. The Steez is only about an ounce and a half heavier but you can feel a detectable difference.

Might be the reel hood and heavier gauge aluminum on the Steez A. I know my 2019 Morethans feel extremely solid... essentially a bit nicer Steez A.

Oh right. Duh. I have that morethan and could make the comparison myself after all but never noticed because I stuck a giant aftermarket handle on the morethan before ever using it the first time and left it on since. Always attributed the extra heft to the giant handle, but I suppose it could be a heavier gauge AL body.

[i_am_R2]

Plus the hood/thumb rest on the Zillion is made out of plastic or graphite.

[Johnny A]

But what’s so exciting and revolutionary about Shimano?
#SameOlSameOl

[dragon1]

I wish they'd bring back the Morrum. An updated ZX 1600 Mag with a high speed offset gearbox would be awesome. Pure Fishing has pretty much been saying no to anything Sweden made outside of 5500/6500 rehashes. They feel the future is in the Revo

Yeppers...and even when the Morrum ZX was readily available, it was the IVCB version and not the Mag.

[Cal]

But what’s so exciting and revolutionary about Shimano?
#SameOlSameOl

The frame design of the Bantam and Metanium and their MGL tuning.

[SSS]

I would personally say that it is a competition for the Zenon, simply because the reel is light. The Zillion is not a tank like the Bantam is, so if you someone is looking for a quality light reel, the Zenon and the Zillion will be on the menu.

It is not a fair comparison because being made of aluminum allows the Zillion to be offered at a lower price which will automatically make the Zillion the preferred choice.

Price point always matters when comparing product and so do the reasons behind the differences in cost.

It certainly does, but that's the nice thing about this reel in particularl; the performance and refinement is so great, that it makes what's more expensive semi pointless. This reel offers it all, and that's why i think this reel competes against all high end baitcasters, including their own Daiwa steez line.

Would also like to mention that we have the likes of the Okuma Hakai that is made out of magnesium, and is under $200, so the material might be less expensive than we think, and its just shimano and daiwa that inflates its cost to give us an impression that its this prestigious material exclusive for their higher end models.

[SSS]

Plus the hood/thumb rest on the Zillion is made out of plastic or graphite.

Its not much of a negative, tho. The frame is metal, and that's the most important part. The hood being made of zion/graphite will only make this reel a great little thing for cold weather, and i can confirm this being the case while fishing in late November this year with temps between 2-6*C.

[Johnny A]

But what’s so exciting and revolutionary about Shimano?
#SameOlSameOl

The frame design of the Bantam and Metanium and their MGL tuning.

Will

[DirtyD64]

I don't care for the plastic hood on the newest Zillion, mine even feels to have a tiny bit of wiggle to it. This being said though, that reel is also a tank. There might be plastic parts here and there, but the aluminum frame, rigid gear/drive train, and overall tolerances make the Zillion feel pretty solid. Sure, it isn't as solid as my Conquest, but it is a very strong feeling reel. I haven't held or felt a Bantam, but I would assume it compares well to that reel too.

I agree about the Abu prices. Very hard to pay more for an Abu than a USDM Zillion or Metanium/Bantam. Nothing against Doyo made reels, just had some issues and have veered away from them. I still think the best thing Abu could do would be go back to made in Sweden, do some new round reels (updated classics) and a few high-end low profiles, using fresh technologies. Again no hate for ANY of the Doyo reels, they just do not have their own special feel.

PS I might be late but noticed the USDM Zillion on TW is now at $369.99. Prices are getting out of hand here.

[dragon1]

But what’s so exciting and revolutionary about Shimano?
#SameOlSameOl

The frame design of the Bantam and Metanium and their MGL tuning.

Agreed, Shimano has refreshed their line-up well...now if only I could get myself to trust the MM gears again.

I actually fished a buddy's current Gen Bantam HG last week on the Duck River tossing a 3/8 jig/trailer on a Dobyns Sierra and was surprised as to the compactness, smoothness, and casting ability of the reel. It is easily lighter and more "palmable" than the OG Zillion, and felt pretty dang stout...but still, being nearly brand new, it already had a slight whining during crank (with a jig/trailer that puts out very little resistance no less), and I could hear it even over the river running and light rain. I'm thinking that if a brand new HG model is doing this with brass MM gears, do I want to deal with always keeping extra gear sets around on a brand new reel?