What's next for Daiwa...

Reels are the hottest topic for TackleTour. Everyone wants to know what the latest and greatest is and how they compare to the old guard. What's the best for light stuff, or what's your suggestion for heavy cover. Do we really need different retrieve ratios? It's all in here.
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Re: What's next for Daiwa...

Post by ShimanoFan » Mon Nov 12, 2018 4:59 pm

Let's get this back on Daiwa...

What do you Daiwa users think about mag seal? Do you think Daiwa should keep it??? Or, ditch it?

If Daiwa ever changed anything, it would be to eliminate something that is not very serviceable. Nevada Rick will be all over it shortly.
Last edited by ShimanoFan on Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Why is there a concerted effort of hate? And why is it allowed?

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Re: What's next for Daiwa...

Post by Tokugawa » Mon Nov 12, 2018 5:04 pm

Unfortunately, Shimanofan's user name checks out.

Maxwell he is not. Flux cutting electro-motive force eludes his non-adroit, single spring-driven cranium. But hey - he contracted at NASA, Universal AND Disney so all technical authority is indubitably legitimate.

Sigh...I will simply defer to legendary ChuckE.

https://tackletour.net/viewtopic.php?t=8831

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Re: What's next for Daiwa...

Post by ShimanoFan » Mon Nov 12, 2018 5:11 pm

Tokugawa wrote:Unfortunately, Shimanofan's user name checks out.

Maxwell he is not. Flux cutting electro-motive force eludes his non-adroit, single spring-driven cranium. But hey - he contracted at NASA, Universal AND Disney so all technical authority is indubitably legitimate.

Sigh...I will simply defer to legendary ChuckE.

https://tackletour.net/viewtopic.php?t=8831
OK... I took a look at your guru and found some issues with his description:

"The simple Magforce uses an inductor that is fixed to the spool and set a fixed distance into the magnets. Braking action starts to occur as soon as the spool begins to move, and the faster it moves the more braking that occurs, until the end of the cast when braking action diminshes as spool speed is reduced."

I could debate that one too! ... but it seems to me the faster the spool spins the less braking is going on, and when the spool slows the magnetic strength has more braking effect.

Sort of like one man trying to stop a car going 60 mph by human strength alone, as opposed to same human stopping same car going 1 mph.

How much force does a car moving at 60mph have versus 1mph?

The magnetic strength remains constant. How can a fixed flux density have more braking at high speeds when the inertia weight is dramatically increased?

The human constant can stop the slow weight, but not the inertia driven weight. While in a reel a fixed magnet is having little effect on a high speed rotation, but as it slows, then its' fixed strength can show more of a braking effect on a lighter weight to stop it. Just sayin'...

Oh, and even if you had 2 humans trying to stop the car going 60mph, what effect would 2 humans have on that car? Would they have MORE of an effect on a car moving at 60mph than one man would have on a car going 1mph?

Get my point? I hope.

I use to have NASA engineers calling me at home after hours wanting to know how I made their systems work! My boss said I was forbibben to tell them.

I asked them jokingly, how the hell did you guys ever get us on the moon and back? Guess they subcontracted that too!
Last edited by ShimanoFan on Mon Nov 12, 2018 5:43 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Why is there a concerted effort of hate? And why is it allowed?

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Re: What's next for Daiwa...

Post by poisonokie » Mon Nov 12, 2018 5:33 pm

Tokugawa wrote:Unfortunately, Shimanofan's user name checks out.

Maxwell he is not. Flux cutting electro-motive force eludes his non-adroit, single spring-driven cranium. But hey - he contracted at NASA, Universal AND Disney so all technical authority is indubitably legitimate.

Sigh...I will simply defer to legendary ChuckE.

https://tackletour.net/viewtopic.php?t=8831
:laugh1: :laugh1: :laugh1:
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Re: What's next for Daiwa...

Post by Tokugawa » Mon Nov 12, 2018 5:34 pm

Your shot glass is overflowing

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Re: What's next for Daiwa...

Post by poisonokie » Mon Nov 12, 2018 5:52 pm

Tokugawa wrote:Unfortunately, Shimanofan's user name checks out.

Maxwell he is not. Flux cutting electro-motive force eludes his non-adroit, single spring-driven cranium. But hey - he contracted at NASA, Universal AND Disney so all technical authority is indubitably legitimate.

Sigh...I will simply defer to legendary ChuckE.

https://tackletour.net/viewtopic.php?t=8831
ChuckE made a good point about the taper off the inductor. That's how lighting rods work, by siphoning off the electric potential before it results in a lightning strike. Thanks for sharing that thread. Fat lot of good it will do for some, though.
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Re: What's next for Daiwa...

Post by Tokugawa » Mon Nov 12, 2018 6:06 pm

poisonokie wrote:
Tokugawa wrote:Unfortunately, Shimanofan's user name checks out.

Maxwell he is not. Flux cutting electro-motive force eludes his non-adroit, single spring-driven cranium. But hey - he contracted at NASA, Universal AND Disney so all technical authority is indubitably legitimate.

Sigh...I will simply defer to legendary ChuckE.

https://tackletour.net/viewtopic.php?t=8831
ChuckE made a good point about the taper off the inductor. That's how lighting rods work, by siphoning off the electric potential before it results in a lightning strike. Thanks for sharing that thread. Fat lot of good it will do for some, though.
The sad part is we lost a lot of even better stuff in the Great Crash.

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Re: What's next for Daiwa...

Post by poisonokie » Mon Nov 12, 2018 6:19 pm

ShimanoFan wrote:
Tokugawa wrote:Unfortunately, Shimanofan's user name checks out.

Maxwell he is not. Flux cutting electro-motive force eludes his non-adroit, single spring-driven cranium. But hey - he contracted at NASA, Universal AND Disney so all technical authority is indubitably legitimate.

Sigh...I will simply defer to legendary ChuckE.

https://tackletour.net/viewtopic.php?t=8831
OK... I took a look at your guru and found some issues with his description:

"The simple Magforce uses an inductor that is fixed to the spool and set a fixed distance into the magnets. Braking action starts to occur as soon as the spool begins to move, and the faster it moves the more braking that occurs, until the end of the cast when braking action diminshes as spool speed is reduced."

I could debate that one too! ... but it seems to me the faster the spool spins the less braking is going on, and when the spool slows the magnetic strength has more braking effect.

Sort of like one man trying to stop a car going 60 mph by human strength alone, as opposed to same human stopping same car going 1 mph.

How much force does a car moving at 60mph have versus 1mph?

The magnetic strength remains constant. How can a fixed flux density have more braking at high speeds when the inertia weight is dramatically increased?

The human constant can stop the slow weight, but not the inertia driven weight. While in a reel a fixed magnet is having little effect on a high speed rotation, but as it slows, then its' fixed strength can show more of a braking effect on a lighter weight to stop it. Just sayin'...

Oh, and even if you had 2 humans trying to stop the car going 60mph, what effect would 2 humans have on that car? Would they have MORE of an effect on a car moving at 60mph than one man would have on a car going 1mph?

Get my point? I hope.

I use to have NASA engineers calling me at home after hours wanting to know how I made their systems work! My boss said I was forbibben to tell them.

I asked them jokingly, how the hell did you guys ever get us on the moon and back? Guess they subcontracted that too!
You do realize that that people are not inductors and cars are not magnets? They braking system you're describing is a mechanical one, like centrifugal brakes. That's when mechanical energy is transformed into heat through friction.

And if anyone from NASA consults you on anything, or Disney for that matter, then I am Mickey Mouse!
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Re: What's next for Daiwa...

Post by ShimanoFan » Mon Nov 12, 2018 6:47 pm

Thanks.
Why is there a concerted effort of hate? And why is it allowed?

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Re: What's next for Daiwa...

Post by LowRange » Mon Nov 12, 2018 7:44 pm

ShimanoFan wrote:I will look at the video.

Look at the inductor. Look at the small size of it. It is not an insulated coil like you see in electrical production equipment or electromagnets.

Even if there are some free floating electrons, they do not amount to anything significant enough to be of usable value in a reel and certainly do not make an electromagnet and Daiwa has not designed in anything remotely needing electrons for.

The reel is strictly designed for magnets to attract to a metal to slow it down. Nothing more.

I am done with this. I stand by my belief that the strength of the attraction on the fixed inductor remains constant through the entire cast.

And free electrons moving around or transferred to a small piece of metal does not make an electromagnet to operate against the magnet. This is just simple magnetic attraction to a metal and I will leave it here.

I have not seen any evidence to prove to me that the inductor receives a varying degree of magnetic flux based on rotational speed. This point has not been proven is all I am saying and I will leave it here.
It is not magnetic attraction. The magnets are not attracted to the aluminum spool like they would be with an iron spool. What is happening is aluminum moving within a magnetic field produced by the magnets and a small current is being induced into the aluminum giving the aluminum a magnetic field as well. It is the interaction of these two magnetic fields that is slowing the spool or in video, the descent of the magnet. What is key to understand here is that the faster the aluminum moves in the magnetic field the greater the induced current is and the greater the interference between the two magnetic fields. In a fishing reel application, the faster the spool spins the more it will brake.

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Re: What's next for Daiwa...

Post by LowRange » Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:08 pm

We also need to define what we mean by "linear magnetic brake". This term is used when referring to magnetic brakes that are not Daiwa Magforce Z, Magforce V, Air Brake , Shimano DC or the Shimano BFS mag reels. It applies to all the magnetic brakes with the button magnets afixed to a moveable plate seen in various Korean and Chinese OEM reels, Daiwa Magforce and a few Magnetic Shimanos as well.

It is referred to as a linear magnetic brake because curve of the brake as expressed in graph with brake strength over spool speed produces a linear curve. As spool speed increases so does the braking and it does so at uniform rate. Compare this to a centrifugal brake or Magforce Z graph and you will see a nonlinear graph.

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Re: What's next for Daiwa...

Post by poisonokie » Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:24 pm

LowRange wrote:We also need to define what we mean by "linear magnetic brake". This term is used when referring to magnetic brakes that are not Daiwa Magforce Z, Magforce V, Air Brake , Shimano DC or the Shimano BFS mag reels. It applies to all the magnetic brakes with the button magnets afixed to a moveable plate seen in various Korean and Chinese OEM reels, Daiwa Magforce and a few Magnetic Shimanos as well.

It is referred to as a linear magnetic brake because curve of the brake as expressed in graph with brake strength over spool speed produces a linear curve. As spool speed increases so does the braking and it does so at uniform rate. Compare this to a centrifugal brake or Magforce Z graph and you will see a nonlinear graph.
Cool. I thought it was just because the button magnets are vertical and interfere with the side of the spool or something. Makes a lot more sense now. I also didn't realize the Magforce in older Daiwas was considered linear like the OEM reels. I have a TD-X, but I just got it to check it out, and beyond pitching it around in the living room, I've never actually used it to see what it's like.
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Re: What's next for Daiwa...

Post by poisonokie » Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:34 pm

ShimanoFan wrote:Thanks.
You know, I read your original post, and you're right, I shouldn't have said the thing about the classroom. I figured you were just trying to get a rise out of me. Hell, I'm no spring chicken myself. So FWIW I apologize.
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Re: What's next for Daiwa...

Post by ShimanoFan » Tue Nov 13, 2018 4:42 am

LowRange wrote:
It is not magnetic attraction.
And yet there are magnets but it is not a magnetic attraction?

My debate was over whether or not the "induced" field was variable as someone said it increased and decreased. I said no.

The action, the induction FROM the magnets, is constant. The reaction, the effect you describe, is secondary and is variable. No debate there.
Why is there a concerted effort of hate? And why is it allowed?

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Re: What's next for Daiwa...

Post by ShimanoFan » Tue Nov 13, 2018 4:43 am

poisonokie wrote:
ShimanoFan wrote:Thanks.
You know, I read your original post, and you're right, I shouldn't have said the thing about the classroom. I figured you were just trying to get a rise out of me. Hell, I'm no spring chicken myself. So FWIW I apologize.
Thanks, and I apologize too. I was not trying to provoke anyone. I was merely poking fun at myself. I am human and fallible.

All the best!
Why is there a concerted effort of hate? And why is it allowed?

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