Sustain vs Certate JDM (or other similar priced reels JDM)

Reels are the hottest topic for TackleTour. Everyone wants to know what the latest and greatest is and how they compare to the old guard. What's the best for light stuff, or what's your suggestion for heavy cover. Do we really need different retrieve ratios? It's all in here.
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Samuel_b
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Sustain vs Certate JDM (or other similar priced reels JDM)

Post by Samuel_b » Wed Apr 25, 2018 3:22 pm

Seeing as a spinning reel will be in the future for me, I figured I had better start narrowing down the field of options... I have in the past purchased the Stradic, as it fits into that $200 price point and offers decent components and refinement...however my Stradic FK left me wanting a little more refinement and in general I figured if I spent a bit more on the reel I may be more inclined to pick up my spinning setup more often--so sad but true how the mind works :lol:

So for those who have used both or either weigh in please? Looking for refinement and precision above all else, and I'm not interested in Ci4 or Zaion frames. The TwinPower is still in the running as well. And I usually get 2500 size, does anyone have experience with 3000 size spinning reels in these models? Will be used for finesse only and light line tactics...going on a 7' Medium Expride 2017 model.

karirick
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Re: Sustain vs Certate JDM (or other similar priced reels JDM)

Post by karirick » Wed Apr 25, 2018 9:10 pm

Twinpower is better than Sustain; Certate and Twinpower I think will be mixed comments. Others will chime in I'm sure.

Rick

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Re: Sustain vs Certate JDM (or other similar priced reels JDM)

Post by DirtyD64 » Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:45 am

I think the Twin Power and Sustain have the worm gear levelwind, pretty sure the Certate does, but know some of the new upper/mid tier Daiwa's have the single studded gear the controls it. Both designs work, but I went for the Shimano (mid priced) because of that feature.

It almost looks like the newest Exist uses that design from the few internals I have seen.

Samuel_b
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Re: Sustain vs Certate JDM (or other similar priced reels JDM)

Post by Samuel_b » Fri Apr 27, 2018 5:15 pm

So after all that research and certainty that an aluminum frame only was my target...I walked into Cabelas picked up a Stradic Ci4 3000 and loved it-called Tackle Trap and added one to my tackle order ;) :laugh1:

But my next spinning reel will either be a Certate or Twinpower

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Re: Sustain vs Certate JDM (or other similar priced reels JDM)

Post by Slazmo » Fri Apr 27, 2018 6:32 pm

DirtyD64 wrote:I think the Twin Power and Sustain have the worm gear levelwind, pretty sure the Certate does, but know some of the new upper/mid tier Daiwa's have the single studded gear the controls it.
Shimano uses worm and pawl oscillation- Daiwa seem to only use locomotion oscillation (only on old school and Saltiga's they use worm).

Pro's for worm and cons for worm especially if allowed to wear and left unserviced.

Pro's for locomotion and not many cons for locomotion imho... very hard to fault it but not what you'd expect on a high priced reel when its the norm on el cheapo reels.

DirtyD64
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Re: Sustain vs Certate JDM (or other similar priced reels JDM)

Post by DirtyD64 » Fri Apr 27, 2018 11:48 pm

Slazmo wrote:
DirtyD64 wrote:I think the Twin Power and Sustain have the worm gear levelwind, pretty sure the Certate does, but know some of the new upper/mid tier Daiwa's have the single studded gear the controls it.
Shimano uses worm and pawl oscillation- Daiwa seem to only use locomotion oscillation (only on old school and Saltiga's they use worm).

Pro's for worm and cons for worm especially if allowed to wear and left unserviced.

Pro's for locomotion and not many cons for locomotion imho... very hard to fault it but not what you'd expect on a high priced reel when its the norm on el cheapo reels.

Well what you stated kind of changed my mind. The cheap reels might use the design, but as long as the design isn't flawed, and precision manufacturing with quality parts are used then it shouldn't matter. I just always thought the worm design was far superior though because of how little I have ever had to service baitcasting levelwinds... I know the designs aren't identical, but close enough to get an idea of wear/tear.

Slazmo
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Re: Sustain vs Certate JDM (or other similar priced reels JDM)

Post by Slazmo » Sat Apr 28, 2018 6:03 am

Different forces with how the level wind and spool oscillation works, weights and wear is different in both designs and reel applications.

Personally If I "could" find a capable machinist and someone that would be willing I would make some parts up for the oscillation in shimano reels that would make it again more solid - than is and will become with additions of bearings etc into say a garden variety Stradic...

Otherwise 100% of my spin reels are Shimano - level wind / spool oscillation is of no issue - however regular maintenance and continued maintenance is key to keeping the system happy and long in the tooth!

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Re: Sustain vs Certate JDM (or other similar priced reels JDM)

Post by ScoobyDoo » Sat Apr 28, 2018 10:31 am

Samuel_b wrote:Seeing as a spinning reel will be in the future for me, I figured I had better start narrowing down the field of options... I have in the past purchased the Stradic, as it fits into that $200 price point and offers decent components and refinement...however my Stradic FK left me wanting a little more refinement and in general I figured if I spent a bit more on the reel I may be more inclined to pick up my spinning setup more often--so sad but true how the mind works :lol:

So for those who have used both or either weigh in please? Looking for refinement and precision above all else, and I'm not interested in Ci4 or Zaion frames. The TwinPower is still in the running as well. And I usually get 2500 size, does anyone have experience with 3000 size spinning reels in these models? Will be used for finesse only and light line tactics...going on a 7' Medium Expride 2017 model.

The sustain is such an odd reel....even though the price came own....and it gained more than it has in the past....it's still weird...

300$ for an aluminum framed reel that is essentially a ci4+

I thought Ci4+ draws a premium price? lol

Slazmo
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Re: Sustain vs Certate JDM (or other similar priced reels JDM)

Post by Slazmo » Sat Apr 28, 2018 9:21 pm

ScoobyDoo wrote:The sustain is such an odd reel....even though the price came own....and it gained more than it has in the past....it's still weird...
How the Sustain Started under the Stella back in the day to where it sits now is the same old story as the Chronarch in the baitcaster line...
ScoobyDoo wrote:300$ for an aluminum framed reel that is essentially a ci4+
More alike a slightly tarted up FK Stradic than a Ci4+ - only thing is the internals that are resembling a global platform
ScoobyDoo wrote:I thought Ci4+ draws a premium price? lol
Polyamide with a carbon reinforcing isnt that much more interesting or jaw dropping than the XTG-7 with glass reinforcing. Nor should it be more expensive in reality - however when they say it is - well they set the pricing. Aluminium injection moulding is more intensive yet with technologies today they shouldnt be expensive at all - look at how many mass produced products are out there today with these same manufacturing processes.

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Re: Sustain vs Certate JDM (or other similar priced reels JDM)

Post by DirtyD64 » Sat Apr 28, 2018 9:48 pm

Stradic FK:
7 bearings
Less Protection from salt water (Core Protect I think is more of a coating to keep water out)
$200, been out a while, not to hard to find a good deal new


Sustain FI:
9 bearings total, an extra on the levelwind and drag I think, maybe in the handle knob rather than levelwind.
X Protect, which is a labrynth construction w/ hydrophobic coating to keep water out (better than Core Protect by a bit)
$300, newer and hard to find a good deal


Anything I missed???

ScoobyDoo
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Re: Sustain vs Certate JDM (or other similar priced reels JDM)

Post by ScoobyDoo » Sun Apr 29, 2018 6:43 pm

Slazmo wrote:
ScoobyDoo wrote:The sustain is such an odd reel....even though the price came own....and it gained more than it has in the past....it's still weird...
How the Sustain Started under the Stella back in the day to where it sits now is the same old story as the Chronarch in the baitcaster line...
ScoobyDoo wrote:300$ for an aluminum framed reel that is essentially a ci4+
More alike a slightly tarted up FK Stradic than a Ci4+ - only thing is the internals that are resembling a global platform
ScoobyDoo wrote:I thought Ci4+ draws a premium price? lol
Polyamide with a carbon reinforcing isnt that much more interesting or jaw dropping than the XTG-7 with glass reinforcing. Nor should it be more expensive in reality - however when they say it is - well they set the pricing. Aluminium injection moulding is more intensive yet with technologies today they shouldnt be expensive at all - look at how many mass produced products are out there today with these same manufacturing processes.
When ci4 first found it's way into reels...I said many times it's probably cheaper than glass reinforced since the molds may not wear as much lol..so yeah...I don't feel it should be priced ahead of alu.
But that's where they positioned it.

I took apart the sustain side by side with the ultegra and ci4+
it is literally the ci4 with alu frame, gold colored spool lip...2 spool bearings x protect (which is just a metal washer with hydrophobic coating.....I think that was it

It was sad to see the blanks for the 3 screw to press the sideplate bearings against the washer and seal.....that weren't used.

almost as sad as the socorrow having the slots to fit the sideplate seals that the nasci has and left em out.

SHIMANO IS SLIPPING!!!! I know they had some shakeups the past 6 months..hopefullly we see some good value / performance products coming out.

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