LT versus Ci4+FB

Reels are the hottest topic for TackleTour. Everyone wants to know what the latest and greatest is and how they compare to the old guard. What's the best for light stuff, or what's your suggestion for heavy cover. Do we really need different retrieve ratios? It's all in here.
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LT versus Ci4+FB

Postby DirtyD64 » Sat Mar 03, 2018 7:29 am

So on a weekend vacation I finally got to handle a Tatula and Ballistic LT. I have finally found a good deal on a new Stradic, but was halted after testing the LT series (in store).

I figured the Shimano would be far the superior, and even though it's still my front runner choice, I had to ask for an update if anyone has it on the LT series. They are extremely well feeling reels, I was worried the extreme lightweight would give it an off feel but that's not the case. The only issue I noticed was the knob tolerance, and oddly enough the Tatula LT2500 was flawless, but the higher priced Ballistic LT had some knob wiggle.

So is there anyone to support maybe trying the LT over the Stradic? The lack of a levelwind worm gear is the main negative keeping me leaning toward Shimano right now...

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Re: LT versus Ci4+FB

Postby cndbasshunter » Sat Mar 03, 2018 8:15 am

The question is how durable the new Lt is. The older versions were so so.

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Re: LT versus Ci4+FB

Postby Finnz922 » Sat Mar 03, 2018 9:28 am

cndbasshunter wrote:The question is how durable the new Lt is. The older versions were so so.


The older versions of what? They never made L&T reels before

The Tat is brand new and the older Ballistic were great just heavy. I never heard anyone give a bad review on older Daiwa spinning reels. Shimano has great rep especially in spinning reels and longevity. Specifically Stradic on up.

You are correct, how durable will they be?
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Re: LT versus Ci4+FB

Postby Slazmo » Sat Mar 03, 2018 12:49 pm

My question on the new LT range is what specific materials have they taken out and in doing so what longevity or strength portions or lifespans have they compromised in doing so?

There's a limit where you can remove weight from parts before they start becoming throw away junk.

I serviced an Exist a while back and after it had caught one (ok decent) fish the internals were cracked and spool too...

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Re: LT versus Ci4+FB

Postby vinnieb729 » Sat Mar 03, 2018 1:32 pm

The Tatula LT and Ballistic LT are Zaion and that's been around a while. Whatever your thoughts on the material will probably hold true for these two reels...assuming there's no flaw in the design.

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Re: LT versus Ci4+FB

Postby Slazmo » Sat Mar 03, 2018 3:14 pm

vinnieb729 wrote:The Tatula LT and Ballistic LT are Zaion and that's been around a while. Whatever your thoughts on the material will probably hold true for these two reels...assuming there's no flaw in the design.


Carbon reinforced polyamides have been around for ages and are a good and valuable building material in a vast array of scenarios - its more the design of smaller moving parts which are getting whittled away to save weight more year in and year out - these small sacrificial internal integral parts are the backbone of reels and the ones most likely to fail.

Aluminium Zinc alloys for instance are harder than pure metal forms yet brittle to start off with (due to their crystalline structure) and over time become more and more brittle "age hardening", lets be honest they're not going to give us a aerospace alloy or one that's going to last forever - how this relationship with these alloys over years is going to pan out with lightning all around the reel is yet to be seen - but can be seen with failures in some reels already.

With Planned Obsolescence and the economic value of current day build of small items such as fishing reels its hard to say how long they'll last - unlike those made in the 1900's and early 2000's - it seems that the warrantable time on reels are lessening and the yearly output in range is ever increasing due to consumer demand for newer, lighter, faster and more technology advanced pieces without the worry of true longevity.

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Re: LT versus Ci4+FB

Postby DirtyD64 » Sat Mar 03, 2018 7:37 pm

Think the Tatula and Ballistic LT are both A7075 aluminum, the Fuego is that Zinc gear... The Stradic is cold forged aluminum which I swear shouldn't be a gimmick and should actually provide better gear tooth durability.


The Daiwa spinning reels had a great feel, the non elbow handle was great too... I don't like the massive line capacity for freshwater, and the Stradic spool lip design looked better too.

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Re: LT versus Ci4+FB

Postby Kurt L » Sat Mar 03, 2018 10:28 pm

For what its worth I have not had good luck with the gear durability using a couple of Stradic FK 4000's and they use the same gear part numbers as the Ci4+ FB 4000. I will probably be moving all of my new Spinning reels to Daiwa LT's after thirty years of exclusive Shimano. The new Quantum Smoke S3 series are getting very good reviews and have a 3 year warranty! I may try one to see how it holds up.

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Re: LT versus Ci4+FB

Postby DirtyD64 » Sat Mar 03, 2018 10:52 pm

Kurt L wrote:For what its worth I have not had good luck with the gear durability using a couple of Stradic FK 4000's and they use the same gear part numbers as the Ci4+ FB 4000. I will probably be moving all of my new Spinning reels to Daiwa LT's after thirty years of exclusive Shimano. The new Quantum Smoke S3 series are getting very good reviews and have a 3 year warranty! I may try one to see how it holds up.

Kurt


That's interesting. The Daiwa sure felt smooth to me. I was 100% set on the Stradic and now I'm spooked, even though I've had a 2500FA Ci4+ that has been through hell and 4 years of fish but still smooth. copycat site had me questioning also, had some reel breakdowns, wished for a direct comparison of the LT 2500 versus Ci4+2500.

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Re: LT versus Ci4+FB

Postby Kurt L » Sun Mar 04, 2018 10:44 am

DirtyD64 wrote:
Kurt L wrote:For what its worth I have not had good luck with the gear durability using a couple of Stradic FK 4000's and they use the same gear part numbers as the Ci4+ FB 4000. I will probably be moving all of my new Spinning reels to Daiwa LT's after thirty years of exclusive Shimano. The new Quantum Smoke S3 series are getting very good reviews and have a 3 year warranty! I may try one to see how it holds up.

Kurt


That's interesting. The Daiwa sure felt smooth to me. I was 100% set on the Stradic and now I'm spooked, even though I've had a 2500FA Ci4+ that has been through hell and 4 years of fish but still smooth. copycat site had me questioning also, had some reel breakdowns, wished for a direct comparison of the LT 2500 versus Ci4+2500.


I don't think you will have any trouble from the 2500-3000 Ci4+ they are good reels (I still prefer the FA series over the FB) mine have been bullet proof, but when you step up in size the gears don't the gears in the 4000-5000 are about the same size as the 2500, The new LT's have massive gears for their size.

Kurt

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Re: LT versus Ci4+FB

Postby DirtyD64 » Sun Mar 04, 2018 3:31 pm

Kurt L wrote:
DirtyD64 wrote:
Kurt L wrote:For what its worth I have not had good luck with the gear durability using a couple of Stradic FK 4000's and they use the same gear part numbers as the Ci4+ FB 4000. I will probably be moving all of my new Spinning reels to Daiwa LT's after thirty years of exclusive Shimano. The new Quantum Smoke S3 series are getting very good reviews and have a 3 year warranty! I may try one to see how it holds up.

Kurt


That's interesting. The Daiwa sure felt smooth to me. I was 100% set on the Stradic and now I'm spooked, even though I've had a 2500FA Ci4+ that has been through hell and 4 years of fish but still smooth. copycat site had me questioning also, had some reel breakdowns, wished for a direct comparison of the LT 2500 versus Ci4+2500.


I don't think you will have any trouble from the 2500-3000 Ci4+ they are good reels (I still prefer the FA series over the FB) mine have been bullet proof, but when you step up in size the gears don't the gears in the 4000-5000 are about the same size as the 2500, The new LT's have massive gears for their size.

Kurt


I wonder though how much bigger the LT 2500/3000 or even 1000/2000 gear is versus the Shimano... I'm not opposed to trying the Daiwa, just hard to do. I am always Daiwa casting, Shimano spinning, but bought a Chronarch MGL and love it.

You mentioned a Quantum Smoke earlier, I don't know if I could bring myself to pay for one, but my Revo STX20 I moved to a 6'Light TFO rod isn't as rough or bad as I thought, and it's almost got 2 seasons on it. I do still think the Japanese brands are superior, but I agree that there are other good reels out there. Also really like the Nanobraid I tried (6lb) for that same Light powered rod.

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Re: LT versus Ci4+FB

Postby Kurt L » Sun Mar 04, 2018 6:19 pm

DirtyD64 wrote:
Kurt L wrote:
DirtyD64 wrote:
Kurt L wrote:For what its worth I have not had good luck with the gear durability using a couple of Stradic FK 4000's and they use the same gear part numbers as the Ci4+ FB 4000. I will probably be moving all of my new Spinning reels to Daiwa LT's after thirty years of exclusive Shimano. The new Quantum Smoke S3 series are getting very good reviews and have a 3 year warranty! I may try one to see how it holds up.

Kurt


That's interesting. The Daiwa sure felt smooth to me. I was 100% set on the Stradic and now I'm spooked, even though I've had a 2500FA Ci4+ that has been through hell and 4 years of fish but still smooth. copycat site had me questioning also, had some reel breakdowns, wished for a direct comparison of the LT 2500 versus Ci4+2500.


I don't think you will have any trouble from the 2500-3000 Ci4+ they are good reels (I still prefer the FA series over the FB) mine have been bullet proof, but when you step up in size the gears don't the gears in the 4000-5000 are about the same size as the 2500, The new LT's have massive gears for their size.

Kurt


I wonder though how much bigger the LT 2500/3000 or even 1000/2000 gear is versus the Shimano... I'm not opposed to trying the Daiwa, just hard to do. I am always Daiwa casting, Shimano spinning, but bought a Chronarch MGL and love it.

You mentioned a Quantum Smoke earlier, I don't know if I could bring myself to pay for one, but my Revo STX20 I moved to a 6'Light TFO rod isn't as rough or bad as I thought, and it's almost got 2 seasons on it. I do still think the Japanese brands are superior, but I agree that there are other good reels out there. Also really like the Nanobraid I tried (6lb) for that same Light powered rod.


The prior Smokes I put my hands on were rough and unrefined but they seamed to hold up ok? the New S3 is reported to be very smooth and better all the way around, The 3 year warranty means that at the least I won't have to buy new gears every fall for a little while, I want to put my hands on one to see if it's even worth considering!

Kurt

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Re: LT versus Ci4+FB

Postby ScoobyDoo » Sun Mar 04, 2018 9:14 pm

I put out some stuff about the new tats earlier today...the 3k is larger than a 3k shimano. But 6.8 ounces with no line.

I put some time on the Tatula lt about 30hrs so far of winter finesse fishing. I love it. I also have a ci4 on loan that i've fished and it's excellent as well. I haven't realy spent any time on the ballistic beyond a pair of outings. But it's a tatula with mag seal and a seal in the sideplate.

I'd take the tat and tat silver over a stradic fk and ultegra. Throw a dart for the ci4...but the tat is so simple internally which is nice to see.

Regarding cold forged and coated vs machined alu....tell my stellas who need new gears in 2 years and one of em saw more shelf time than on the water time. (received tons of pm's with FI stellas needing gear swaps which i found weird)

Posted uppy close shots in the vid of the mirror polish that's formed as the tat lt gearset has run in.

They have a nice feel to them...As a shimano egg beater fan whos owned a ton of each. I think the best way to approach the new tats and ballistics.......They equal the shimano ci4 in performance.....and on the water experience.......Ballistic offers a bit more ruggedness.......But they need to prove themselves.

The Penn slammer 3 is the most refined tank modern sub 300$ reel ever made on paper....it hasn't proven itself yet..and there are tons of qc issues.
I know one person had a ballistic lt swapped after it got geary after a day....never saw it first hand...and he's ocd :)
I know 8 others have put time on them and they enjoy them.

CI4 tons of great with the gear durbility issues within the norm.

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Re: LT versus Ci4+FB

Postby DirtyD64 » Sun Mar 04, 2018 10:42 pm

ScoobyDoo wrote:I put out some stuff about the new tats earlier today...the 3k is larger than a 3k shimano. But 6.8 ounces with no line.

I put some time on the Tatula lt about 30hrs so far of winter finesse fishing.

CI4 tons of great with the gear durbility issues within the norm.


I'm tempted to send you my Revo STX20 for a look. I don't think it has a locomotion levelwind, but I would like to see it internally past where I break it down. The gear box is a little jam packed though and very small within the body. Call it like an insert molded C6 body or something. This little Abu (and my wife's Premier 30 2016-sent for free) both lay line well, are lightweight, great drag, etc. Only issue with them is gear durability, they are smooth everywhere except for after a big fish fight or heavy load. Strangely they seem to return to smoothness a little after, maybe they are wearing back smooth.

So overall, I will simply ask, if it was you in my situation, for a 7'ML rod, would you get a Ci4+2500 or a Tatula LT1000-2500 (or shallow 3000 Sterling)? Probably use the new 8lb Sufix 832 yellow.

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Re: LT versus Ci4+FB

Postby Kurt L » Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:52 pm

ScoobyDoo wrote:I put out some stuff about the new tats earlier today...the 3k is larger than a 3k shimano. But 6.8 ounces with no line.

I put some time on the Tatula lt about 30hrs so far of winter finesse fishing. I love it. I also have a ci4 on loan that i've fished and it's excellent as well. I haven't realy spent any time on the ballistic beyond a pair of outings. But it's a tatula with mag seal and a seal in the sideplate.

I'd take the tat and tat silver over a stradic fk and ultegra. Throw a dart for the ci4...but the tat is so simple internally which is nice to see.

Regarding cold forged and coated vs machined alu....tell my stellas who need new gears in 2 years and one of em saw more shelf time than on the water time. (received tons of pm's with FI stellas needing gear swaps which i found weird)

Posted uppy close shots in the vid of the mirror polish that's formed as the tat lt gearset has run in.

They have a nice feel to them...As a shimano egg beater fan whos owned a ton of each. I think the best way to approach the new tats and ballistics.......They equal the shimano ci4 in performance.....and on the water experience.......Ballistic offers a bit more ruggedness.......But they need to prove themselves.

The Penn slammer 3 is the most refined tank modern sub 300$ reel ever made on paper....it hasn't proven itself yet..and there are tons of qc issues.
I know one person had a ballistic lt swapped after it got geary after a day....never saw it first hand...and he's ocd :)
I know 8 others have put time on them and they enjoy them.

CI4 tons of great with the gear durbility issues within the norm.


Thank you Scooby for all your hard work and telling the details that matter, I think you may have sold me on a LT 4000/5000 :D for the upcoming King Salmon season. In Alaska we don't normally see new tackle for a year or two after it's released it seems so it's a real help to see your video's!

Thanks, Kurt


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