Concept Z initial impressions. Did I expect too much?

Reels are the hottest topic for TackleTour. Everyone wants to know what the latest and greatest is and how they compare to the old guard. What's the best for light stuff, or what's your suggestion for heavy cover. Do we really need different retrieve ratios? It's all in here.
ScoobyDoo
Elite Angler
Elite Angler
Posts: 749
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2011 8:38 am

Re: Concept Z initial impressions. Did I expect too much?

Postby ScoobyDoo » Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:53 pm

BRONZEBACK32 wrote:I will still take a 13 any day over a favorite/select fishing reel....

:big grin:


NO doubt!!

ScoobyDoo
Elite Angler
Elite Angler
Posts: 749
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2011 8:38 am

Re: Concept Z initial impressions. Did I expect too much?

Postby ScoobyDoo » Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:58 pm

13Fishing wrote:Scoobie,

The tolerances on a CZB are slightly(your talking .001mm here) looser than an inside race of a Ball bearing intentionally. We have done a lot of testing to find the performance and durability spot. In order to understand this, you must first understand this material. This is not at all like plastics used in the past for bushings, nor is it anything like a sintered bronze bushing they have used in reels before.

As you know, Hamai is a high end Japanese precision machine(We proudly believe this is the best machine in the world for this purpose and our state of the art factories use the latest and greatest), our gears are cut in Korea.

Okuma does not own our factory...lol, they are a direct competitor and have nothing to do with 13 Fishing. All 13 Fishing reels are designed by 13 Fishing, and are industry unique to us. We select our manufacturing facility as we see fit to deliver the product to our specifications. Just as Daiwa, Shimano, Abu, Quantum/Zebco, Lews, and all the other top brands do. They're are only a few factories in the world that are owned outright by reel brands and they produce only a very small segment of the reels in the North American market. You might be surprised how many Shimano and Daiwa reels are made by contract manufacturers...i personally visit many of them as they welcome our business. We currently use over 25 manufacturing facilities around the world.

Matt
13 Fishing


.001 mm that's microscopic. The holes the czb's sit in are that tight. And snap into place nicely. The tolerances of the pieces that are supported by them however are large enough that i can move it back and forth by hand and see feel and hear it.
I can take the spool out and put a pair of tweezers on the CZB and wiggle it back and forth. Same with the handle shaft base czb. And pinion.
I'll take the macro video I shot and send it to you privately. What's your email address. I'd like to know if this is normal.

ScoobyDoo
Elite Angler
Elite Angler
Posts: 749
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2011 8:38 am

Re: Concept Z initial impressions. Did I expect too much?

Postby ScoobyDoo » Sat Jan 20, 2018 11:48 am

So after getting tons of feedback on this reel. And hearing that some guys had reels that were quiet and some that were chattery on the cast. It really was interesting to see how even of a split it was.



I did a few simple experiments.

I pulled the line off the reel. Which consisted of 40lb braid backing and about 150 yards of 8lb braid.
Joined by a uni knot. (3 turns on the 40lb and 4 turns on the 8) held in place on the spool by an overhand knot through the hole in the spool.


I spooled it up with 12lb berkley big game.
I secured it to the spool by putting it through the hole and burning a bulb in the bitter end.

I taped it off and gave it a spin....tons of buzz and chatter....
I then trimmed the tape so that there was no overlap....and wouldn't ya know......SILENCE.

I then pulled off about 50 yards of line....and tied a uni knot over the 12lb (just like a bobber stop) just to simulate a line to line join knot.
And sure enough the buzz came back.

It was really interesting to see just how much of a difference a tiny braid to braid uni makes. On bass reels with tight bearing tolerances...You really don't really hear it or feel. At least not in my 20 years and 200reels worth of experience. Backing and topshotting braid. And I never thought it was of any importance to balance a spool

But with gaps being larger on the Z than what you find on normal ball bearing supported spools. It is enough to show up plainly. It can be felt as much as it is heard.

Now I wonder much more distance I can squeeze out of it with a perfectly balanced spool.
Without that chatter...The spool will remain centered and the brakes will perform more consistently

So Now what.........

That still doesn't change my feeling that the retrieve isn't on par with other reels at or below it's price range.

DirtyD64
Platinum Angler
Platinum Angler
Posts: 1386
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2017 4:23 pm

Re: Concept Z initial impressions. Did I expect too much?

Postby DirtyD64 » Sat Jan 20, 2018 8:36 pm

Who is it again that most people claim makes Okuma??? Banax I think it is... Doyo or whoever makes Abu and Lew's, I understand people contract out manufacturers but there is still an OBVIOUS difference between Shimano/Daiwa and the rest...

mark poulson
TT Pro Angler
TT Pro Angler
Posts: 1942
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2007 6:28 am
Location: NoCal

Re: Concept Z initial impressions. Did I expect too much?

Postby mark poulson » Sat Jan 20, 2018 8:48 pm

ScoobyDoo wrote:So after getting tons of feedback on this reel. And hearing that some guys had reels that were quiet and some that were chattery on the cast. It really was interesting to see how even of a split it was.



I did a few simple experiments.

I pulled the line off the reel. Which consisted of 40lb braid backing and about 150 yards of 8lb braid.
Joined by a uni knot. (3 turns on the 40lb and 4 turns on the 8) held in place on the spool by an overhand knot through the hole in the spool.


I spooled it up with 12lb berkley big game.
I secured it to the spool by putting it through the hole and burning a bulb in the bitter end.

I taped it off and gave it a spin....tons of buzz and chatter....
I then trimmed the tape so that there was no overlap....and wouldn't ya know......SILENCE.

I then pulled off about 50 yards of line....and tied a uni knot over the 12lb (just like a bobber stop) just to simulate a line to line join knot.
And sure enough the buzz came back.

It was really interesting to see just how much of a difference a tiny braid to braid uni makes. On bass reels with tight bearing tolerances...You really don't really hear it or feel. At least not in my 20 years and 200reels worth of experience. Backing and topshotting braid. And I never thought it was of any importance to balance a spool

But with gaps being larger on the Z than what you find on normal ball bearing supported spools. It is enough to show up plainly. It can be felt as much as it is heard.

Now I wonder much more distance I can squeeze out of it with a perfectly balanced spool.
Without that chatter...The spool will remain centered and the brakes will perform more consistently

So Now what.........

That still doesn't change my feeling that the retrieve isn't on par with other reels at or below it's price range.


So, if I'm reading this right, the knot from the backing to the braid is causing the spool to chatter because it is loaded unevenly.
I had planned to just load my reel with 50 lb braid, and then add a 30" leader of 20 lb fluoro or mono, depending on the lure I'm using, or just stick with straight braid for flipping and punching.
It sounds like I shouldn't have any chattering issues.
Am I understanding your post correctly?
Would adding a balancing knot on the other side of the spool let me use backing, and then a top shot of braid, before the leader?

ScoobyDoo
Elite Angler
Elite Angler
Posts: 749
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2011 8:38 am

Re: Concept Z initial impressions. Did I expect too much?

Postby ScoobyDoo » Sun Jan 21, 2018 9:41 am

mark poulson wrote:
ScoobyDoo wrote:So after getting tons of feedback on this reel. And hearing that some guys had reels that were quiet and some that were chattery on the cast. It really was interesting to see how even of a split it was.



I did a few simple experiments.

I pulled the line off the reel. Which consisted of 40lb braid backing and about 150 yards of 8lb braid.
Joined by a uni knot. (3 turns on the 40lb and 4 turns on the 8) held in place on the spool by an overhand knot through the hole in the spool.


I spooled it up with 12lb berkley big game.
I secured it to the spool by putting it through the hole and burning a bulb in the bitter end.

I taped it off and gave it a spin....tons of buzz and chatter....
I then trimmed the tape so that there was no overlap....and wouldn't ya know......SILENCE.

I then pulled off about 50 yards of line....and tied a uni knot over the 12lb (just like a bobber stop) just to simulate a line to line join knot.
And sure enough the buzz came back.

It was really interesting to see just how much of a difference a tiny braid to braid uni makes. On bass reels with tight bearing tolerances...You really don't really hear it or feel. At least not in my 20 years and 200reels worth of experience. Backing and topshotting braid. And I never thought it was of any importance to balance a spool

But with gaps being larger on the Z than what you find on normal ball bearing supported spools. It is enough to show up plainly. It can be felt as much as it is heard.

Now I wonder much more distance I can squeeze out of it with a perfectly balanced spool.
Without that chatter...The spool will remain centered and the brakes will perform more consistently

So Now what.........

That still doesn't change my feeling that the retrieve isn't on par with other reels at or below it's price range.


So, if I'm reading this right, the knot from the backing to the braid is causing the spool to chatter because it is loaded unevenly.
I had planned to just load my reel with 50 lb braid, and then add a 30" leader of 20 lb fluoro or mono, depending on the lure I'm using, or just stick with straight braid for flipping and punching.
It sounds like I shouldn't have any chattering issues.
Am I understanding your post correctly?
Would adding a balancing knot on the other side of the spool let me use backing, and then a top shot of braid, before the leader?

YOu are reading that correctly. Assuming it's not just my reel. And it's the same across the board. Balancing the spool will keep it from chattering.

mark poulson
TT Pro Angler
TT Pro Angler
Posts: 1942
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2007 6:28 am
Location: NoCal

Re: Concept Z initial impressions. Did I expect too much?

Postby mark poulson » Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:51 pm

ScoobyDoo wrote:
mark poulson wrote:
ScoobyDoo wrote:So after getting tons of feedback on this reel. And hearing that some guys had reels that were quiet and some that were chattery on the cast. It really was interesting to see how even of a split it was.



I did a few simple experiments.

I pulled the line off the reel. Which consisted of 40lb braid backing and about 150 yards of 8lb braid.
Joined by a uni knot. (3 turns on the 40lb and 4 turns on the 8) held in place on the spool by an overhand knot through the hole in the spool.


I spooled it up with 12lb berkley big game.
I secured it to the spool by putting it through the hole and burning a bulb in the bitter end.

I taped it off and gave it a spin....tons of buzz and chatter....
I then trimmed the tape so that there was no overlap....and wouldn't ya know......SILENCE.

I then pulled off about 50 yards of line....and tied a uni knot over the 12lb (just like a bobber stop) just to simulate a line to line join knot.
And sure enough the buzz came back.

It was really interesting to see just how much of a difference a tiny braid to braid uni makes. On bass reels with tight bearing tolerances...You really don't really hear it or feel. At least not in my 20 years and 200reels worth of experience. Backing and topshotting braid. And I never thought it was of any importance to balance a spool

But with gaps being larger on the Z than what you find on normal ball bearing supported spools. It is enough to show up plainly. It can be felt as much as it is heard.

Now I wonder much more distance I can squeeze out of it with a perfectly balanced spool.
Without that chatter...The spool will remain centered and the brakes will perform more consistently

So Now what.........

That still doesn't change my feeling that the retrieve isn't on par with other reels at or below it's price range.


So, if I'm reading this right, the knot from the backing to the braid is causing the spool to chatter because it is loaded unevenly.
I had planned to just load my reel with 50 lb braid, and then add a 30" leader of 20 lb fluoro or mono, depending on the lure I'm using, or just stick with straight braid for flipping and punching.
It sounds like I shouldn't have any chattering issues.
Am I understanding your post correctly?
Would adding a balancing knot on the other side of the spool let me use backing, and then a top shot of braid, before the leader?

YOu are reading that correctly. Assuming it's not just my reel. And it's the same across the board. Balancing the spool will keep it from chattering.

Thanks. It made sense that way, but it seemed really unlikely that such a small weight difference would cause the chattering. I guess I'll find out for myself sometime after Feb.4, the new arrival date at TW.

ScoobyDoo
Elite Angler
Elite Angler
Posts: 749
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2011 8:38 am

Re: Concept Z initial impressions. Did I expect too much?

Postby ScoobyDoo » Sat Apr 14, 2018 12:33 pm

Been fishing this reel off an on for the last few months....figured I'd update since I really added anything in a bit.

It's not a bad reel.. Right weight. handles up close work well. And works well for all medium to medium heavy applications that don't need tons of distance.

Being that they market it as an inshore reel. After having a great week using traditional outfits...I figure what the heck...lets see how it works on some stripers between 8 and 30lbs...because..inshore

The reels capacity was ok for throwing plugs on an 8' steez swimbait rod which is a fairly moderate action. I'd worry about putting it on my 9'6 black hole or 11'footer. Figure about 150 give or take of 30lb power pro...PR knotted to a 40lb leader.

I would not recommend this reel to any person alive who regularly encounters fish over 10lbs. The casting is very noisey...and yeah I can oil the bushing so it'll quiet down for 20 casts...but these czb's are supposed to not need it....Other bushing reels i have cast as far and are silent. Static magged, knobby magged and centrifugal. You could hear it clear as day from 15' away in a 15-20mph wind on camera....to give you an idea.

The handle flex under load i reel...reminds me of the cabo 50 ptsd....
The knobs with the 13 logo are very uncomfortable....and feel very cheap when compared to others. I don't mind smooth eva..because it doesnt't feel like eva.....((cheap)) Adding those silly contours makes it feel like all the bad things associated with eva.

Braking was fine...I set the brakes at 4 because i was gonna be casting plugs that throw like darts and throw like maple leaves (super strike sinking little neck popper/ un loaded cotton cordell 7' redfin)

Distance was fine.. i wasn't equaling my friends next to me on the long range stuff..but they're were throwing custom fiberstar composites and were longer rods. But i was close...and knocking on the door with the maple leaf type lures.

After a few hookups and fish...the reel stopped feeling new...opened it up today to make sure no salt and sand made its way in....No visible damage...but doesn't feel anywhere near as smooth as it was when new.

I did notice a little play at time in the ar after a few fish...I check my drag when i returned home and it was set at 8lbs. I had it set that way from the second fish on. Some fish made some nice runs......and had fun controlling a tail hooked fish.

I think i've fished it enough now to say in my opinion..it's not a bad reel at all whatsoever....but it's not a very good 200$ reel at all.


Return to “Reels”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 34 guests