13 fishing CZB Bearing

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Slazmo
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Re: 13 fishing CZB Bearing

Postby Slazmo » Sat Jan 06, 2018 1:08 pm

What I'd like to know is it going to chew into the contact / friction points of your spool shaft and do damage over time like typical delrin / teflon polymer bushings hat have been allowed to go dry through neglect.

Also within regards to particulats like sand and dust and how they'll react inside these and its contact surface, unlike a shielded bearing which resist foreign ingress quiet well...

Heat and thermal expansion, humidity, water ingress into the conyact point, self lubricating lifetime and overall product lifetime vs standard ZZ shielded bearing... all these beg for answers...

Its a big retrograde in terms of ball bearings IMHO, how are these bushes going to make my Curado 50e that much better and allow me to cast for bass more effortlessly than it already does?

Im on the fence and by the time we get them in Australia as a spare part, this hype / all the song and dance will most likely have subsided and be forgotten.

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BRONZEBACK32
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Re: 13 fishing CZB Bearing

Postby BRONZEBACK32 » Sat Jan 06, 2018 1:12 pm

I honestly feel like gears have more to do with smoothness over what bearings are in the reel.

Casting is a different story....

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Re: 13 fishing CZB Bearing

Postby y2k88 » Sat Jan 06, 2018 3:36 pm

So many questions like

What is the stiffness of the material? and can a high drag setting possibly deform the inner bore of the spool bearing?

Are these meant to be lubed, or are they self-lubricating/impregnated?

Are they subject to gradual water attack/degradation from weathering, particularly the spool bearings?

What's the expected life span of a CZB bearing (under average, not ideal, conditions)?

What're the ways to clean them? I'm guessing aggressive solvents are not recommended?



I don't realy have a problem with bushings replacing frame BBs, but wonder what the advantage is over a well-designed and manufactured bushing using conventional mateirals (POM?).

For comparing the spool bearings, I'd like to see casting distance in the same reel:
- CZB stock
- CZB cleaned and lubed (if appropriate)
- Daiwa/Shimano bearing stock
- D/S bearing cleaned and lubed

And if retrofitting a D/S reel with a CZB beariing, would polishing the spool shaft/CZB contact be required?

For a saltwater reel that gets heavy salt spray or gets dunked, hard to argue against fewer corrodible parts.
For less demanding situations, would think less critical.

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Re: 13 fishing CZB Bearing

Postby fffishing » Sun Jan 07, 2018 6:23 am

y2k88
I can bet,this "new staff" can't go even close to stock Daiwa,Shimano and Abu bearings... Another "peace of marketing" IMHO :mrgreen:
So,don't take it so serious!

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Re: 13 fishing CZB Bearing

Postby johnD » Sun Jan 07, 2018 9:00 am

13Fishing wrote:
johnD wrote:Well , before icast they advertised it being a zero bearing reel...now they call the bushing a bearing. I am confused. :-k


zero BALL bearings guys....its the steel material, the balls, the races, and the shields that are causing so many issues within your reels. Noise, corrosion, and performance loss over time....these are a large majority of the reasons you need service. The CZB solves the issues while still delivering the performance characteristics you desire. It exceeds performance in many areas as well.

wikipedia
A bearing is a machine element that constrains relative motion to only the desired motion, and reduces friction between moving parts. ... The simplest form of bearing, the plain bearing, consists of a shaft rotating in a hole.
Bearing (mechanical) - Wikipedia

Call it a bearing, call it a bushing....no matter. It works, try it...you might be very very surprised. It took years to get this right.

Matt
13 Fishing


Sorry Bro. But , after dealing with your customer service/warranty (three times) and having to actually drive to Clearwater to get my warrantied rod , you won't ever have to worry about me buying a 13 product again...

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Re: 13 fishing CZB Bearing

Postby zodiak311 » Sun Jan 07, 2018 9:19 am

I was just about to bring up the legendary Penn Jigmaster as well, that reel runs on bushings, and is near bullet proof in salt water. I question the durablility of these bushings, but overall durability is just as important.

I am willing to give the product a try, never owned anything from 13, but not planning to pay full price either.
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Re: 13 fishing CZB Bearing

Postby mark poulson » Sun Jan 07, 2018 6:59 pm

zodiak311 wrote:I was just about to bring up the legendary Penn Jigmaster as well, that reel runs on bushings, and is near bullet proof in salt water. I question the durablility of these bushings, but overall durability is just as important.

I am willing to give the product a try, never owned anything from 13, but not planning to pay full price either.


I still have an old Jigmaster, and a left handed Surfmaster, that still work perfectly.
I preordered a CZ 7.3:1, it's due in on Jan. 9, and I'm getting a stiff neck from looking up at the calendar. ;)

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Re: 13 fishing CZB Bearing

Postby 13Fishing » Mon Jan 08, 2018 7:34 am

y2k88 wrote:So many questions like

What is the stiffness of the material? and can a high drag setting possibly deform the inner bore of the spool bearing?

Are these meant to be lubed, or are they self-lubricating/impregnated?

Are they subject to gradual water attack/degradation from weathering, particularly the spool bearings?

What's the expected life span of a CZB bearing (under average, not ideal, conditions)?

What're the ways to clean them? I'm guessing aggressive solvents are not recommended?



I don't realy have a problem with bushings replacing frame BBs, but wonder what the advantage is over a well-designed and manufactured bushing using conventional mateirals (POM?).

For comparing the spool bearings, I'd like to see casting distance in the same reel:
- CZB stock
- CZB cleaned and lubed (if appropriate)
- Daiwa/Shimano bearing stock
- D/S bearing cleaned and lubed

And if retrofitting a D/S reel with a CZB beariing, would polishing the spool shaft/CZB contact be required?

For a saltwater reel that gets heavy salt spray or gets dunked, hard to argue against fewer corrodible parts.
For less demanding situations, would think less critical.


This is a lot of questions, but I will try to address most of them:

The material is unbelievably stiff, We have been testing it with 40+lbs of drag in the Gulf of Mexico for months. Additionally it has been tested for 6 months in extreme saltwater, sand, and debris. So far we haven't been able to wear one out...we are not seeing deformation of the material, break down, or any durability issues. I am very confident in the materials longevity. We are wearing out tooling in our manufacturing process because the material is so hard. I can't put a lifespan on a CZB because we simply have not had one go bad in reel world fishing testing. I'm sure eventually one will need replacement, we look forward to seeing those and working on improving the longevity even further. The only ones we have seen go bad are the ones that have been pried out of a reel instead of being removed carefully.

You want to compare to bearings as "Daiwa/Shimano stock bearings" this is pretty interesting as it shows so much bias. Shimano and Daiwa have many grade bearings. These bearings range from poor to incredible. These bearings come from many bearing manufacturers in many countries(Japan, and China the most prevalent) and these are in some cases the exact same bearings other manufacturers use(some are proprietary like the Mag Sealed)...but I'm sure that you are referring to the Japanese bearings used in some locations of the better reels. The CZB's casting performance will match or exceed the vast majority, and I am talking about bearings that cost 4 times the $11.00 retail of the CZB. As always you have to decide what you want in a reel. This is an "enthusiast" site, so many reading these comments want the most butter smooth high end $1000 reel that has the worlds best manufacturing tolerance money can buy...I have no problem with that, but that is not what the Concept Z and the CZB is all about.(this is a $200 product) We are trying to showcase a new technology. It doesn't solve every problem, but it solves many issues that are created by ball bearings....meanwhile it delivers some pretty impressive performance. See the technology for what it is, experience it and apply it to one of your reels so that you can see where it excels. Going forward you will see many bearing locations that will be better suited for a CZB, they will make the reel feel smoother, tighter, and quieter.

The CZBs won't need lubrication, we lubricate them at the factory with one drop of lubricant that impregnates into the material. This is a at the microscopic level as it doesn't absorb much. We even tried vacuum sealing in the lubricant in testing to see if that made a difference...it didn't. In all our testing we have never had to re-lubricate a single bearing.

to clean them you simply just wipe them off. I recommend just a paper towel. No, I wouldn't slather them with solvents. this is unnecessary.

Matt
13 Fishing

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Re: 13 fishing CZB Bearing

Postby Cristo » Mon Jan 08, 2018 8:02 am

Big thanks Matt for taking the time to answer our questions! =D>
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Re: 13 fishing CZB Bearing

Postby fffishing » Mon Jan 08, 2018 8:25 am

Thanks for explanation! Will see...I want to try this new staff!
When it's shows in the stores? ( I mean bearings)
Thank you.

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Re: 13 fishing CZB Bearing

Postby y2k88 » Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:29 pm

Matt, thanks for your time in the detailed reply.
As you say, probably the best way to find out is by trying it ourselves.

For me, I think the next mental barrier is price point.
For example, a Shimano ARB spool bearing is 1200 yen from Shimano JP.
Bearings in various Shimano US reels are $10-$16.
A Shimano bushing/collar, conversely, is about $1.00-1.50.
A CZB is $11.

For me, I won't be in a hurry to replace uncorroded bearings to CZB, but if a bearing goes bad, then yes.

I do like you're challenging traditional thinking.

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BRONZEBACK32
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Re: 13 fishing CZB Bearing

Postby BRONZEBACK32 » Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:31 pm

I'm tired of every fishing youtuber that has one of these reels and says how amazing it casts compared to all other reels
in the market without actually having any of these other reels to compare it to, then finding out they are affiliated with 13 fishing...

Lame

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Re: 13 fishing CZB Bearing

Postby mark poulson » Tue Jan 09, 2018 7:46 am

BRONZEBACK32 wrote:I'm tired of every fishing youtuber that has one of these reels and says how amazing it casts compared to all other reels
in the market without actually having any of these other reels to compare it to, then finding out they are affiliated with 13 fishing...

Lame


Today is the "in" date for the 7.3:1 CBZ reels at TW, so I'm hoping I'll receive mine soon.
I'll let you know how it performs against Team Lew's, BB1 (both five years old) and Quantum Smokes and EXOs.
I didn't order mine to get the longest casting reel.
Frankly, I was just intrigued by the whole bushing concept, and wanted to see for myself.

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Re: 13 fishing CZB Bearing

Postby 13Fishing » Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:15 am

you guys are so caught up in casting distance your missing all the other great attributes of the CZB. We aren't claiming this is the longest casting reel in the world....but man does it cast, and effortlessly too. The statement we are making is that we are all knuckleheads for thinking ball bearings do all this great stuff for our reels. Ball bearings cause as much grief, poor performance and bad attributes as anything inside your reel. Our marketing is getting your attention, and the next step is you getting to experience the product.

If you look you will find many consumers receiving reels and backing up our claims. The product will speak for itself.

Its natural that the first videos on you tube etc. are going to be our pro-staff, these are the guys that we send out first run product to. If you want to see the consumer opinion search #ConceptZ on Instagram and Facebook. In addition to those reels we send them to many independent reviewers.(tackle tour is one of those). I would like to make sure it is known, we are not a paid advertiser of Tackle Tour. Zander and his team evaluate our products as they see fit. Tackle Tour's testing methods are their own, we answer any questions they ask and they formulate their own opinions.

Matt
13 Fishing

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Re: 13 fishing CZB Bearing

Postby BRONZEBACK32 » Tue Jan 09, 2018 12:59 pm

Matt when will just the bearings be available for purchase?


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