Which is more important - the reel or the rod?

[BucketHunter]

While I maintain a series of moderately priced Shimano reels (201e, 50e and 300e, I like having the same feel across the board and it makes maintenance, sourcing parts and upgrading a snap) I generally would subscribe to a sliding scale.
I have found about 400.00 including line to be my baseline when it comes to buying setups, including tax (Canada). I don't shoot for that number, but it just always seems to ring up around that figure by the time I make it to the till. Sub in your own budget.
For bottom contact, allow more money for the rod. The lighter, more sensitive rods, and often shorter (relatively) sticks let you use lighter reels for balance points, and even some of todays mid-budget, light reels come in at nice MSRP's these days. You'll want braid, or quality flouro which will eat up some of your budget.

With moving bait presentations, I am liking quality S Glass blanks more and more. Being heavier, they will balance out with a heavier reel nicer. If you do market research, Glass blanks can be had much cheaper than Graphite, and I sometimes wonder how some company's can validate selling them at the same price as their high quality carbon companions - see Dobyns.
I've been most interested in building my own cranking rods, due to the fact that you can probably put them together for about 150 bucks, with great build quality and components. While ugly as sin, the W&M Clunn rods perform admirably for about 65 bucks. With a cheaper glass rod, you can sink some extra money into a high quality, heavier metal, yet smoother retrieve reel, something like a Ch-D as so many guys like or a Zillion. You can save some money by going with a nice Mono or Copoly.
Moving into extra long rods for moving baits, I like to go back to graphite just for weight savings and aiding in balance, and here you could move into a quality round reel that is smooth and heavy, look around and Calcutta B's and Cardiff A's can be had at nice prices, as well as the Lexa 300 for swimbaits/A rigs.

BFS becomes a whole other proposition, just waiting for the market to catch up and offer more cost effective options for rods, and at present, a used, low capacity reel with upgrades seems to be your most cost effective option.

For spinning reels, there are very serviceable options in the 75 dollar range, so you can pump a bunch of money into the rod.

[tracker01]

I think the line you're using makes more of a difference in conjunction with the rod. If you're using braid or a high quality fluoro with a St Croix Premier, it's going to feel every bit as good as a $300 rod using cheap mono. As some others have mentioned, it’s all a system working together.

I totally disagree, you can’t make a rod more sensitive than it is, IDC what freakin line U choose to use with it. The sensitivity of the rod is what it is and if you choose to use mono instead of the more sensitive fluorocarbon the rod doesn’t become less sensitive, just your ability to detect bites. I’ll take a NRX or MB rod known for there outstanding sensitivity with mono over a St Croix Legend Xtreme or comparable rod & fluor or braid. Every day of the week & twice on the weekends.

So if you use braid on an NRX, does that not make it easier to determine what's happening down below? Braid will amplify any transmissions with any rod, even most glass sticks. It has no stretch, how could it not? Yeah, sure I'll take a 500 Megabass rod any day of the week, BUT the sensitivity gained when using braid on one compared to most rods costing half that IS NOT night and day, and nobody is going to convince to me different. So my answer to the original question is obvious, the reel. For bottom contact and bottom contact only purposes I can see spending a little more dough on the rod. But for someone who fishes primarily moving reaction type baits such as myself it makes no sense. When I see 250 dollar glass rods I just My old man has been fishing walleye for 35 years. He cracks me up. He fishes expensive Loomis rods with 40 dollar reels. He used mono for years and raved about the sensitivity of G Loomis over other brands. Then I turned him onto braid. Now he says he can't tell a difference. Imagine that. But when the bail trips on his 40 dollar spinning reel and the jig head hits me in face he states that a reel only serves one purpose, to provide some drag If you have to choose, fork out some more money on a quality reel. It will make your days on the water much more pleasurable. Oh, and if you're having a hard time with strike detection, etc., get some braid

Soooooo, will a good braid enhance the sensitivity factor on a middle of the road rod? Let's say you put a Curado 50e (with mono) on a Loomis GL3, will braid give you the sensitivity of a higher end Loomis?

[tywithay]

Soooooo, will a good braid enhance the sensitivity factor on a middle of the road rod? Let's say you put a Curado 50e (with mono) on a Loomis GL3, will braid give you the sensitivity of a higher end Loomis?

If you're dragging a jig on a GL3 with a 50E with braid and a 50E with mono on a GLX...I think you'll feel more with the GL3/Braid combo. The rod itself won't transmit vibrations as well and won't feel as light in hand, but even the smallest ticks will feel 100x more amplified by the braided line over mono.

[Hogsticker2]

Soooooo, will a good braid enhance the sensitivity factor on a middle of the road rod? Let's say you put a Curado 50e (with mono) on a Loomis GL3, will braid give you the sensitivity of a higher end Loomis?

If you're dragging a jig on a GL3 with a 50E with braid and a 50E with mono on a GLX...I think you'll feel more with the GL3/Braid combo. The rod itself won't transmit vibrations as well and won't feel as light in hand, but even the smallest ticks will feel 100x more amplified by the braided line over mono.

I always enjoy using my fathers Loomis rods when he feels like chasing some walleye. He is getting old, and he just doesn't feel like doing it as often anymore. Plus, I just don't have those fast action rods in my arsenal. I can feel way more with the bronzeback and braid than I can the GLX with Invizx that he once praised. I don't know, it's simple physics to me. A near zero stretch line VS. one with stretch. I have only found one freshwater species more difficult to detect than walleye, that being Burbot (freshwater ling cod). I'm talking bigger fish of course. They don't strike, they inhale and exhale as soon as they feel any weight. I don't see a lot of people jigging for walleye without braid, and the people who do I seldom see catch any large fish. When I started jigging for walleye in rock many years ago using braid, I would set the hook on damn near everything. Quite the learning curve actually. Of course if you have any slack or bow in your line it doesn't really matter. You will never know that fish had your bait in her mouth. To answer your question, no. Braid will not make a lesser quality rod as sensitive as a high end stick. That wasn't my point. My point was that braid will enhance the transmissions and vibrations you feel on any quality rod.

[mikeysam]

Fishing a jig or soft plastic I can catch more fish with a Nrx with a Zebco on it than with an UglyStik and a Steez.

[tracker01]

Fishing a jig or soft plastic I can catch more fish with a Nrx with a Zebco on it than with an UglyStik and a Steez.

But what if the Steez had braid spooled on it? Would the fish count be a lot closer? You are using the NRX as the sensitivity factor and I am using the braid as the transmission of the sensitivity factor. Maybe ???????

[tywithay]

Fishing a jig or soft plastic I can catch more fish with a Nrx with a Zebco on it than with an UglyStik and a Steez.

Until you set the hook on a good one and your drag locks up and strips the gears, which I've seen happen a few times. Where I live, almost everyone uses zebcos and ugly stiks

[Hogsticker2]

Fishing a jig or soft plastic I can catch more fish with a Nrx with a Zebco on it than with an UglyStik and a Steez.

You're missing the entire point.

[mikeysam]

Fishing a jig or soft plastic I can catch more fish with a Nrx with a Zebco on it than with an UglyStik and a Steez.

You're missing the entire point.

No. You are missing the point. I was speaking figuratively and using hyperbole to make the point that in my opinion the rod is ultimately more important than the reel in actual fishing conditions.( although rods don't look all that pretty sitting on a shelf ).

[Mcyl]

As a tournament angler, my perspective may be different than those of the tackle collectors amongst the TT fraternity. I view my combos no differently than the way a professional mechanic views his tools. Though a gold plated hammer can be both appreciated and cherished, much more can be accomplished with a variety of tools assuming each one of them is of sufficient quality. From that I think that once a reel of sufficient quality is selected, a much greater difference will be realized if the remainder of the budget is allocated to the rod. Using the current model Curado as an example, I can guarantee that a reel of this caliber can never be blamed for a missed fish or a missed opportunity. However a less sensitive rod will not detect the strikes, a less powerful rod (slower recovery rate) will not move the fish from cover nor set the hook as well, a poorer taper will not cast as far nor as accurately. Subsequently in response to your question, you will have a better set of tools if you allocate your budget appropriately. Purchase reels that will more than accomplish the task, then focus on your rods which is where you will find the greatest difference to your ultimate success.

X2 on that, with the reel the spools the key: light enough to cast your intended bait and hold enough line for the runs at full cast, the rest is luxury you can always wind slower or faster and I believe a smooth cast and a light thumb can still make up for any shortcomings...having a bad rod affects cast distance, accuracy, bite detection, set and the fight its all rod. Just look at fly fishing. In lighter wts the spool is just that...something to store the line. I find I can fish comfortable right down to a Black Max but rods I'm more critical. It ain't just the price tag either, more the right length, taper and balance.

[Mcyl]

While I maintain a series of moderately priced Shimano reels (201e, 50e and 300e, I like having the same feel across the board and it makes maintenance, sourcing parts and upgrading a snap) I generally would subscribe to a sliding scale.
I have found about 400.00 including line to be my baseline when it comes to buying setups, including tax (Canada). I don't shoot for that number, but it just always seems to ring up around that figure by the time I make it to the till. Sub in your own budget.
For bottom contact, allow more money for the rod. The lighter, more sensitive rods, and often shorter (relatively) sticks let you use lighter reels for balance points, and even some of todays mid-budget, light reels come in at nice MSRP's these days. You'll want braid, or quality flouro which will eat up some of your budget.

With moving bait presentations, I am liking quality S Glass blanks more and more. Being heavier, they will balance out with a heavier reel nicer. If you do market research, Glass blanks can be had much cheaper than Graphite, and I sometimes wonder how some company's can validate selling them at the same price as their high quality carbon companions - see Dobyns.
I've been most interested in building my own cranking rods, due to the fact that you can probably put them together for about 150 bucks, with great build quality and components. While ugly as sin, the W&M Clunn rods perform admirably for about 65 bucks. With a cheaper glass rod, you can sink some extra money into a high quality, heavier metal, yet smoother retrieve reel, something like a Ch-D as so many guys like or a Zillion. You can save some money by going with a nice Mono or Copoly.
Moving into extra long rods for moving baits, I like to go back to graphite just for weight savings and aiding in balance, and here you could move into a quality round reel that is smooth and heavy, look around and Calcutta B's and Cardiff A's can be had at nice prices, as well as the Lexa 300 for swimbaits/A rigs.

BFS becomes a whole other proposition, just waiting for the market to catch up and offer more cost effective options for rods, and at present, a used, low capacity reel with upgrades seems to be your most cost effective option.

For spinning reels, there are very serviceable options in the 75 dollar range, so you can pump a bunch of money into the rod.

If you shop JDM: Majorcraft Volkey's are a good proposition,
USDM the Phenix Recon 682L has the taper for it and a 712L for casting your line to the arbor.
Both are quite affordable propositions.

[Mcyl]

I think the line you're using makes more of a difference in conjunction with the rod. If you're using braid or a high quality fluoro with a St Croix Premier, it's going to feel every bit as good as a $300 rod using cheap mono. As some others have mentioned, it’s all a system working together.

I totally disagree, you can’t make a rod more sensitive than it is, IDC what freakin line U choose to use with it. The sensitivity of the rod is what it is and if you choose to use mono instead of the more sensitive fluorocarbon the rod doesn’t become less sensitive, just your ability to detect bites. I’ll take a NRX or MB rod known for there outstanding sensitivity with mono over a St Croix Legend Xtreme or comparable rod & fluor or braid. Every day of the week & twice on the weekends.

So if you use braid on an NRX, does that not make it easier to determine what's happening down below? Braid will amplify any transmissions with any rod, even most glass sticks. It has no stretch, how could it not? Yeah, sure I'll take a 500 Megabass rod any day of the week, BUT the sensitivity gained when using braid on one compared to most rods costing half that IS NOT night and day, and nobody is going to convince to me different. So my answer to the original question is obvious, the reel. For bottom contact and bottom contact only purposes I can see spending a little more dough on the rod. But for someone who fishes primarily moving reaction type baits such as myself it makes no sense. When I see 250 dollar glass rods I just My old man has been fishing walleye for 35 years. He cracks me up. He fishes expensive Loomis rods with 40 dollar reels. He used mono for years and raved about the sensitivity of G Loomis over other brands. Then I turned him onto braid. Now he says he can't tell a difference. Imagine that. But when the bail trips on his 40 dollar spinning reel and the jig head hits me in face he states that a reel only serves one purpose, to provide some drag If you have to choose, fork out some more money on a quality reel. It will make your days on the water much more pleasurable. Oh, and if you're having a hard time with strike detection, etc., get some braid

Soooooo, will a good braid enhance the sensitivity factor on a middle of the road rod? Let's say you put a Curado 50e (with mono) on a Loomis GL3, will braid give you the sensitivity of a higher end Loomis?

On a reasonable tight line, yes that and much more. What the angler feels from the line is not vibrations (movement t perpendicular to direction of line) but a tug ( in line with the line lay). A good experiment is to use sinker, hook and bait and try both mono and braid as a hand line. What you can't feel can still be felt by an index finger on the line.

Just got me thinking... Take my daughters set (sienna 1000fd and Diawa drunken monkey) fill it with 4lb PE and go fishing the whole weekend with just it....

[Hogsticker2]

I have observed way more people having issues or failure with cheap reels while on the water. An ugly stix won't break. While it may not be the most sensitive rod on the planet, at least that person can still use it and continue to fish

[Hogsticker2]

Fishing a jig or soft plastic I can catch more fish with a Nrx with a Zebco on it than with an UglyStik and a Steez.

You're missing the entire point.

No. You are missing the point. I was speaking figuratively and using hyperbole to make the point that in my opinion the rod is ultimately more important than the reel in actual fishing conditions.( although rods don't look all that pretty sitting on a shelf ).

My bad

[Paul Shibata]

If I interpreted the op's question correctly, coupled with the fact that this is TT after-all, I think he was seeking advise on distributing his budget on better quality equipment. There is no doubt that my response along with others would have been different had the question been "...I have very limited funds what can I do to maximize my sensitivity?". The inclusion of line as a substitute for the performance criteria generally associated with the rod may be applicable if the budget prevented better rods and reels. However the incredible virtues associated with our modern superlines would translate to any combo thus begging the question that if braid can amplify the strike felt on a medium priced combo, would it not feel even better on a much more sensitive rod? Much like in my original post, I also treat the line that I spool up on any reel as specific tool. For me, there is no "best line" rather what line is the best for a specific situation. Based on this model, I use braided and uni-filament "superlines" as well as conventional monofilament in both copolymer and fluorocarbon formulas. In fact I tend to use pure fluorocarbon (P-Line) predominantly in bottom contact fishing except for a few specific instances despite the perceived sensitivity enhancement commonly associated with superlines.

Whenever I am fishing a "slack line" presentation (most bottom contact techniques including pitching or flipping jigs, worms, craws etc.) I only use mono (co-polymer or fluoro). Braid isn't as sensitive!

What!!! (you say) are you on crack!!!. Before you all jump down my throat remember that I prefaced my statement by saying that when I am fishing a "slack line" presentation.

In a slack line situation which is the accepted method to fish t-rigs and jigs, braid's suppleness in fact impedes the transmission of energy and will thus appear to be less sensitive. Mono or better yet fluorocarbon will appear to be more sensitive under the same conditions (slack line). The rigidity of either mono or fluorocarbon serves to better transmit the energy of a strike and as such the bite will be more easily detected. Fluorocarbon only further assists the transmission of energy given it sinking qualities and the absence of a "belly" in the line.

A simple experiment to further comprehend this apparent paradox would be to hold a short piece of braid between ones fingers and with your eyes closed have someone strike the dangling loose end of the line. The braid rather than transmit the energy of the strike will yield (bend) absorbing the energy and the angler is no more aware.

Try the same experiment with mono or fluorocarbon and you will realize that much like a glass rod these lines will, as a function of their stiffness, better transmit the energy and the associated strike.

I wish I could take ownership of this simple discovery but the credit lies with the jig master himself, Denny Brauer. He identified that immediately following the release of all of the super-lines he (along with everyone else) experimented to formulate their own opinions. He quickly identified that while fishing a jig or Texas rig he detected far fewer strikes when using braided line. Much like the string and the 2-can telephone, sound is only transmitted when the string is tight. The soft limp string dampens the sound waves as it would when fishing a slack line presentation.

I must reiterate that these are my thoughts alone, ones which I have formulated through my own personal experiences and I thoroughly respect all of the other opinions. Ultimately we must fish with whatever method, tackle and technique that we have the most confidence in. Subsequently and in response to the recommendation for funds to be allocated in greater proportion to the reel for moving bait techniques I think that the rod is equally important and deserves as much of the budget as it would for bottom contact presentations, albeit for some different reasons.

Though I can appreciate the tendency to associate better rod performance with "bottom contact" techniques as sensitivity is inherently key, moving baits can also equally benefit from better designed rods. Again this is TT and we all seem to be in pursuit of ultimate performance. Yes of course any rod and reel can "work" but that seems in gross contradiction with the fabric of our community. Once a reel of sufficient performance has been selected, rods that have been expressly designed for certain moving bait presentations can yield spectacular performance improvements.

Using a jerkshad as an example, this killer technique which incorporates a light weightless fluke presents several challenges which are best resolved with the appropriate rod. The ultra clear waters of the Great Lakes obligate extremely long casts to maximize the effectiveness of this technique and these distances are best achieved with longer rods designed with distance tapers and soft extra fast tips. And though I first experimented with many of the reels in my arsenal (Calais DC, Cores, CHD7's CH50MG etc) greater distances and presentation improvements were realized more so with the right rod. (Again a great reel will cast far on its own but will cast event farther on a great rod). Following a long cast this subtle technique benefits from extremely sensitive rods as the giant smallies are often undetectable as they slurp down the weightless fluke. Driving the hook point from great distances is best accomplished with rods employing graphite with the greatest recovery rate. Recovery rate, or the speed which the loaded/deflected blank returns to its original position is the true measure of power, not the often suggested "stiffness" of a rod. Unfortunately faster recovery rates fall within the exclusive territory of the best graphites hence again the argument for better rods. Lastly when the fish of a lifetime is thrashing boatside, the long, soft yet powerful blank will cushion the still aggressive fish until it has calmed sufficiently for the ever important picture. Sensitivity, distance, power, accuracy, and dampening are but some of the attributes that are designed into the best blanks. These same attributes will benefit almost every moving bait presentation let alone the fatigue associated with working heavier less effective rods.

Sorry for the ramble, I hope this proves useful.