What features decide a baitcast reel can throw light lures?

[kakaryan]

First of all, glad to see that the forum has been recovered, but sad that many precious threads were lost.

As the topic suggests that I would like to know more about what features decide if a baitcast reel can throw light lures (maybe this had been asked before.) Till now, the features I know are:

1. The lighter the spool, the smaller required "start up force"

2. The smoother the spool bearings, the longer time the spool rotates.

3. Shallow spool.

But sometimes these come into conflict, as people used to decide whether the spool is smooth by counting "how many seconds the free spool rotates". So,

1. It is the same that the smoother the spool bearings, the longer time the spool rotates.

2. But, the heavier the spool, the longer it can keep rotating as the inertia is larger.

Back to reality,

For example a cardiff 50s DC can throw very light lures although it has a quite heavy spool (16g), so do pixy (14g) and the conquest 50 (13g).

However, a Abu Revo Elite Aurora is commonly said not throwing lighter lure so good.....though its spool being only 11g.

So what cause this? spool bearings?

As mentioned recently in the "Enthusiast & Import Tackle" I have just got a new Aurora (though the thread is lost now but thx for everyone's input especially "evergreener" ), the reel has already been cleaned and re-oiled by pro, so now it feels smoother than "out of box" but still the "free spool time" is just 4s. Much shorter than my "out of box" Daiwa alphas and Shimano Mg7, which usually have 7-8s.

So what cause this? spool bearings again?

If yes, could it be concluded that Abu's spool bearings are not as good as Daiwa's and Shimano's?

It is because I have never used Abu's baitcast reel before, so I have no idea. Any mates own Abu Revo series reels could tell me how long is your "free spool time"?

I am thinking of upgrading the spool bearings to ABEC7 if it helps.

Cheers.

[Bronzeye]

I have no knowledge regarding relative quality of the stock bearings, so I'll focus on other possible explanations.

First, as you point out, if the Aurora has an 11 g. spool and there is no line on it, it has low inertia. When measuring free spool time, the angler typically sets the spool in motion by means other than casting, so a heavier spool's tendency to stay in motion is exaggerated vs. the overall impact of inertia during a cast, which includes slower startup.

If the spools being compared have line on them, then the type and total yards of line become a factor. Braid adds less inertia than nylon monofilament, which adds less inertia than fluorocarbon. A shallow spool gets less additional inertia from line than a deeper spool of similar width.

After that, the bearings matter, but so does the viscosity of the oil used on the bearings.

Finally, assuming the levelwind stays disengaged, the remaining factor is braking. For example, if the reels being compared both have magnetic brakes but one fully shields the brakes at the zero setting while the other does not, the latter might be expected to freespool less, all other things being equal.

[PainInTheBass]

The issue with casting light lures, to my understanding is based on the physics of starting the spool in motion, and then maintaining that motion once it has started.

Essentially, there are forces resistant to the spool starting in motion based on the mass of the spool and line, and the quality of the bearings (and any braking that is applied at the start of the cast). Based on these factors, a certain amount of energy is required in order to get the spool turning. The larger the resistive forces, the larger the energy required in order to get the spool turning.

This energy is provided by the cast (the mass of the lure, as well as the loading of the rod during the cast). The energy of the cast is used to overcome the resistive forces on the spool startup, and then to propel the lure. The distance of the cast is then based on energy that is left for lure propulsion.

The amount of energy that goes into the lure propulsion is essentially the energy of the cast minus the resistive forces on the spool startup. From here, the flight of the lure will be dependant on the energy for lure propulsion minus forces resistant to lure flight (or spool retoation - i.e. wind resistance, braking, spool and line weight and bearings).

From here, you can see how the reel and rod play a role in casting light lures. A rod that does not load well with a particular lure will impair casting distance.

To expand on some of Bronzeye's responses;

Although the Aurora's spool alone weighs 11g, what is the line capacity of the spool? In actual application, it is the mass of the spool plus line that matters since it is that mass which will require energy to move. Also, the mass of the spool without line can have a long free spool when spun manually (with your finger) due to the intertia, and the force exerted by your thumb potentially being significantly greater than the force exerted by the lure and line during a cast.

Smoother spool bearings will reduce both the energy required for spool startup and the energy lost during lure flight. However, as Bornzeye said, the spool oil will also play a role here.

I hope this made some sense.

[kakaryan]

Thanks for the detailed inputs.

I haven't put lines on my Aurora yet. Yes, it definitely has a deeper spool than Cardiff 50DC and which can hold 145m of 0.3mm dia line. But I wonder how heavy the line would be ? (eg. mono, or plus the water while u wet it.) I have no idea at all but even if it weight 5g (or it should be heavier actually? ), the entire "spool plus line thing" still weight 16g (11+5) which is very close to the Cardiff's.

So I think the spool weight isn't play a big role in here, but more the smoothness of the spool bearings. To be honest the "free spool time" being only 4s does really remind me my old Viento.... I am seriously thinking of changing them into ABEC7s........

PS: I always test the "free spool time" by turning into minimun brake and without line on spool..

Any more comments are welcome. Cheers.

[kakaryan]

Some new findings.....

Just now I take off the side plate of the Aurora and test the "free spool time". Wow.....It rotates 17s before stops. Then when I put the side plate back, it becomes 4s again....

So I wonder the mag. break on the side plate is still applying a quite large breaking force to the spool even when it is turned to minimum. When you take the side plate off, this time is really NO braking forces resist the spool.

So....what now? Any modification I can do to it to get a longer free spool time / smoother casting?

And any mates who own other abu revo series reels can do the same test with me to see whether it has a similar result? ( How long are the "free spool time" with and without the side plate? (Only for mag. break models))

Cheers.

[RRION]

Hi, I had the same problem in 2010 with the Aurora...

It's difficult for me to explain (i'm Italian), but Revos are not made for small bait. You can put ceramic bearings to increase the rotation of the spool, but it will never be like an Aldebaran or a Steez.

Maybe, you can try with ZPI Magnetic Finesse KIT: http://custom-zpi.com/httpdocs/01_bfc_fit.html

I suppose that in this way, you'll solve your "problems". But at the end your Aurora will have the value of a Steez Hyper Lariat

[taylor5877]

Honestly, it seems like it's whether or not the internet says it can...

I'm going to take the indian or the arrow approach and say that a LOT is on the individual's skill in casting.

In the late 90's, I caught a lot of fish on weightless trick worms fished with an Abu Garcia Ambassadeur 5501C3. I didn't know that it "couldn't" throw light stuff and just used it...

[fishdog]

I have to agree with Taylor on this one. I have to adjust the braking and "get a feel" for the lure, especially when changing from say a Rattletrap to a finesse worm, but the braking adjustment as well as adjusting my cast allows me to throw weightless worms and such with Abu C3 reels just fine.

I have a Steez and can throw light lures with it easier than I can with a C3, but I can certainly throw the same lures on my C3's--I just have to adjust my technique a little.

[PainInTheBass]

You are correct in the assertion that an angler's casting skill has an affect on the ability to cast light lures. And true, just about any reel can cast light lures with the right setup and the right technique.

However, if you equalize those factors - i.e. the same angler making the casts, since this is the case, it cannot be denied that some reels have certain inherent properties conducive to casting lighter lures.

[kakaryan]

A quick question:

So now I am thinking of upgrading the spool bearings of the Aurora and I have sent an email to bocabearings..

They asked me whether the Aurora has 2 or 3 spool bearings cos some abu revo series reels have 2 and some have 3.....They don't know as they haven't deal with the Aurora before.

I can only found 2 spool bearings, one on the spool and the other in the sideplate.

But what concerns me is the tt review : http://www.tackletour.com/reviewabueliteaurora.html

Size of Spool/Sideplate Bearings (IDxODxWidth) 5x11x4 : 3x10x4 : 5x8x2.5 (handle)

What is the (handle) one? I don't get it......if here is talking about "spool bearings"


Also, I checked the jp site chart diagram.

http://www.purefishing.jp/parts_list/pd ... RORA_L.pdf

#96 is obviously the bearing on the spool and there is only one. Then #88 is the bearing in the sideplate. However the lower table states that the amount of part id 1128194 (#88) is 2. I don't get this either........

I have checked the #88 on my hands, which is just "a" simple bearing.........

Any helps? Cheers.

[JWR075]

First, with a little work Revos can be made into a light lure reel. This design has taken off with some companies in Japan; I can not remember the name but the company was featured in BASS magazine.

I believe besides quality bearings (Abec 7 or ZPI SIC), that a reel should have shallow spool designed for small diameter line. Even if the pixy having a heavier weighing spool than the Revo, it holds less line (of a smaller dia) thus when loaded full it’s weight is less than a Revo spooled with line to a full load.

A good example of this in action is my Fuego (granted two different reels). It was an honest ¼ ounce reel, but with a new spool (PE long cast) and ZPI SIC bearings (available for the Revo too) and I can cast weightless BPS laser eye fry 4” worm with a Gamakatsu light wire size 1 hook (I weighted this combo on my scale and it weighed in at .1) I can cast this lure pretty good considering the extreme light weight.

Another big factor is not the reel but the rod. If the rod does not have the ability to handle such a lightweight lure then it does not really matter which reel you have. I use my Fuego on a DX701C, but I am thinking of trying a new rod and switching my other my other finesse Fuego (same set up except I also have a Presso Short Sensitive handle on it to help reduce the weight to less than 7 ounces) to the DX701C. The new rod will be a Steez MegaTop.

[phatbass]

When I had the aurora ,I changed the spool bearings and it did'nt really do much.your best bet would be to find a shallow spool from avail,or zpi.

[RGMatt]

Honestly, it seems like it's whether or not the internet says it can...

I'm going to take the indian or the arrow approach and say that a LOT is on the individual's skill in casting.

In the late 90's, I caught a lot of fish on weightless trick worms fished with an Abu Garcia Ambassadeur 5501C3. I didn't know that it "couldn't" throw light stuff and just used it...

I'd say that about sums it up. My Premier PC60MLF2 and a piece of crap $70 quantum(mag brake/pre ACS) served me very well for years throwing light baits

[kakaryan]

I just do a little bit of mod on my Aurora to test the "free spool time".

I remove the 3 magnets which are not controlled by the mag brake dial. I only leave the 5 magnets which are controllable.

So now when I dial the mag brake to minimum, the spool is REALLY not affected by any braking force due to the magnets.

The free spool time is now 12 second. ( Before only 4s ). Huge difference.



Well, I dont know how it ll go on field yet...maybe birdnest? I ll try it later to see if I need to put 1 or 2 magnets back.

It seems that the spool smoothness of Abu BC (mag brake model) is largely affected by its mag brake system. While Daiwa's don't, the difference of free spool times of my alphas (featuring mag V) between max. and min. brake is just about 1s. No matter how I dial its mag break, the free spool time is around 7s.......I has to admit that Daiwa's brake system is "clever".

[JWR075]

Revos can be made to throw ultra light baits on light lines. Here you go, these are the people that built the Revos that wee used in the BassMaster magazine article. . http://www.karil.co.jp/