Guides wrapped on the spine of the blank

A specialized forum to discuss anything and everything about your favorite or not so favorite fishing rods.
Post Reply
Mudhole basser
Newbie Angler
Newbie Angler
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2022 11:13 am

Guides wrapped on the spine of the blank

Post by Mudhole basser » Tue Sep 20, 2022 11:37 am

I purchased a Legit Design rod and found that the guides were not wrapped on to the spine of the blank. Returned the rod and got a Poison Adrena rod. I had the guy at Omnia Fishing to pick out the one with the guides most closest wrapped on the spine.
I am disgusted at how even these higher end rods are not for the most part wrapped properly. For those of you with a Loomis rod how are they wrapped?

setsail26
Senior Angler
Senior Angler
Posts: 56
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2017 11:32 am

Re: Guides wrapped on the spine of the blank

Post by setsail26 » Wed Sep 21, 2022 6:18 pm

High end rods are wrapped how the manufacturer wants them wrapped. Most builders wrap on the straightest axis. The spine isn't an actual physical thing, it is just an effect based on the average stiffness over the length of the rod. Casting it can't make any different because we cast at all different angles in relation to the spine of rod. In fact I don't know anyone who casts a casting rod consistently at 0 or 180 from the guides. It also can't make any difference fighting fish. If the guiddes are above the blank (casting rod) they will always want to roll to the bottom of the blank when fighting a fish. Spiral wrap or spinning rods the guides will want to stay at the bottom of a blank. Bottom line, spine is about the least important thing to look at when buying a rod.

dragon1
Pro Angler
Pro Angler
Posts: 10500
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2006 8:23 am
Location: Murfreesboro TN

Re: Guides wrapped on the spine of the blank

Post by dragon1 » Thu Sep 22, 2022 6:36 am

setsail26 wrote: ↑
Wed Sep 21, 2022 6:18 pm
High end rods are wrapped how the manufacturer wants them wrapped. Most builders wrap on the straightest axis. The spine isn't an actual physical thing, it is just an effect based on the average stiffness over the length of the rod. Casting it can't make any different because we cast at all different angles in relation to the spine of rod. In fact I don't know anyone who casts a casting rod consistently at 0 or 180 from the guides. It also can't make any difference fighting fish. If the guiddes are above the blank (casting rod) they will always want to roll to the bottom of the blank when fighting a fish. Spiral wrap or spinning rods the guides will want to stay at the bottom of a blank. Bottom line, spine is about the least important thing to look at when buying a rod.
Yeppers, this was shared with me by rod builders as I essentially went all custom for over a decade. The overall build and components of the rod were much more important, and in my case πŸ’― of my customs were spiral wrapped, so guide placement and size/material needed to match up to my intended use, type/diameter line, and budget, took precedence over building on the spine.

Spine can play a part, but not as significant as many think, especially with improvement with blank/scrim/resins/reinforcement technologies the last couple of decades.
"It is like a finger pointing away to the Moon...don't concentrate on the finger, or you will miss all of that heavenly glory."

User avatar
GOOD YEAR 71
Elite Angler
Elite Angler
Posts: 553
Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2014 5:07 pm
Location: NorCal

Re: Guides wrapped on the spine of the blank

Post by GOOD YEAR 71 » Thu Sep 22, 2022 1:23 pm

What I was taught is the spline (or spine call it whichever) is the strongest part and, therefore, most durable. It does not matter if guides are placed on top, spiral, bottom, all irrelevant to durability.

If dual spline then side by side (it happens), single spline up top, no exception. I, too, feel high end manufacturers should confirm placement. I also feel misconstruction probably has much to do with broken blanks we encounter. Confirmation takes only seconds, quick chalk, problem solved. Very simple. And happens to provide our best chance at durability.
PEACE

dragon1
Pro Angler
Pro Angler
Posts: 10500
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2006 8:23 am
Location: Murfreesboro TN

Re: Guides wrapped on the spine of the blank

Post by dragon1 » Thu Sep 22, 2022 2:54 pm

GOOD YEAR 71 wrote: ↑
Thu Sep 22, 2022 1:23 pm
What I was taught is the spline (or spine call it whichever) is the strongest part and, therefore, most durable. It does not matter if guides are placed on top, spiral, bottom, all irrelevant to durability.

If dual spline then side by side (it happens), single spline up top, no exception. I, too, feel high end manufacturers should confirm placement. I also feel misconstruction probably has much to do with broken blanks we encounter. Confirmation takes only seconds, quick chalk, problem solved. Very simple. And happens to provide our best chance at durability.
FWIW, I have had builders ask me it I wanted the rod built on the spline/spine, or in such a manner that the guides lined up straightest. If the overall characteristic and power of the rod was not changed much if at all, I usually went with "straightest setting" for the guides.

I recall that back in the 1980s to early 2000s, building on the spline/spine of a blank was usually touted by most US brands as an advantage, but it has waned in marketing lingo the last couple of decades. Whether it truly effects the durability and performance of a "modern" higher end rod factory rod, I really can't say, however there are countless people that have noted that a specific piece of gear or lure, always performed better than the rest of the same in their arsenal.
"It is like a finger pointing away to the Moon...don't concentrate on the finger, or you will miss all of that heavenly glory."

User avatar
slipperybob
Platinum Angler
Platinum Angler
Posts: 1311
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2007 5:42 am
Location: Lil'Can

Re: Guides wrapped on the spine of the blank

Post by slipperybob » Thu Sep 22, 2022 3:15 pm

The differences are minute and subtle, but sometimes it makes a difference of feeling a bit off or just right in the action or balance of the tool. Not everyone buys like multiples of the same thing, when most typical one type of each will work. This is sometimes when I'm shopping and actually looking for a piece of tool to use, I want what's best suited for myself. If one loads a rod up and give it a rotational torque, feeling the rod suddenly tick is quite annoying. Equally annoying seeing the guide train spaced nicely just such that even a slight load has the line touching or going below the rod blank of a casting rod is quite annoying. It's not often that one needs to change rod direction on a load, but when it is required and then poof, fish is gone...that actual cause or culmination of everything that caused that. Sometimes the fish just wins. However I sure wouldn't like to feel that tick at the moment the fish unbuttons itself from the hook.

Anyway if comparing two identical rods of same make type, check them out under a load and give it a rotational torque to see to what effects will show differences between the two. The bow/bend of the rod may be quite different between the two.

IMO I don't think it makes much of a difference in UL whippy rods or H broomstick rods. Somewhere in between there is a rod that feels different and off when it's not built on the spline/spine.
slip bobbing is the laziest way to fish

dragon1
Pro Angler
Pro Angler
Posts: 10500
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2006 8:23 am
Location: Murfreesboro TN

Re: Guides wrapped on the spine of the blank

Post by dragon1 » Thu Sep 22, 2022 8:13 pm

slipperybob wrote: ↑
Thu Sep 22, 2022 3:15 pm
The differences are minute and subtle, but sometimes it makes a difference of feeling a bit off or just right in the action or balance of the tool. Not everyone buys like multiples of the same thing, when most typical one type of each will work. This is sometimes when I'm shopping and actually looking for a piece of tool to use, I want what's best suited for myself. If one loads a rod up and give it a rotational torque, feeling the rod suddenly tick is quite annoying. Equally annoying seeing the guide train spaced nicely just such that even a slight load has the line touching or going below the rod blank of a casting rod is quite annoying. It's not often that one needs to change rod direction on a load, but when it is required and then poof, fish is gone...that actual cause or culmination of everything that caused that. Sometimes the fish just wins. However I sure wouldn't like to feel that tick at the moment the fish unbuttons itself from the hook.

Anyway if comparing two identical rods of same make type, check them out under a load and give it a rotational torque to see to what effects will show differences between the two. The bow/bend of the rod may be quite different between the two.

IMO I don't think it makes much of a difference in UL whippy rods or H broomstick rods. Somewhere in between there is a rod that feels different and off when it's not built on the spline/spine.
Agreed that line touching the blank or going under the blank during load is no bueno, however this issue is likely as much due to wrong spacing and placement of guides, as it is not building properly on the spine.
"It is like a finger pointing away to the Moon...don't concentrate on the finger, or you will miss all of that heavenly glory."

hoohoorjoo
TT Moderator
TT Moderator
Posts: 6756
Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2011 1:56 pm
Location: Oxford GA

Re: Guides wrapped on the spine of the blank

Post by hoohoorjoo » Sun Sep 25, 2022 7:49 am

dragon1 wrote: ↑
Thu Sep 22, 2022 8:13 pm
slipperybob wrote: ↑
Thu Sep 22, 2022 3:15 pm
The differences are minute and subtle, but sometimes it makes a difference of feeling a bit off or just right in the action or balance of the tool. Not everyone buys like multiples of the same thing, when most typical one type of each will work. This is sometimes when I'm shopping and actually looking for a piece of tool to use, I want what's best suited for myself. If one loads a rod up and give it a rotational torque, feeling the rod suddenly tick is quite annoying. Equally annoying seeing the guide train spaced nicely just such that even a slight load has the line touching or going below the rod blank of a casting rod is quite annoying. It's not often that one needs to change rod direction on a load, but when it is required and then poof, fish is gone...that actual cause or culmination of everything that caused that. Sometimes the fish just wins. However I sure wouldn't like to feel that tick at the moment the fish unbuttons itself from the hook.

Anyway if comparing two identical rods of same make type, check them out under a load and give it a rotational torque to see to what effects will show differences between the two. The bow/bend of the rod may be quite different between the two.

IMO I don't think it makes much of a difference in UL whippy rods or H broomstick rods. Somewhere in between there is a rod that feels different and off when it's not built on the spline/spine.
Agreed that line touching the blank or going under the blank during load is no bueno, however this issue is likely as much due to wrong spacing and placement of guides, as it is not building properly on the spine.
True, but if you spiral wrap the guides, this becomes a non-issue. Of course, that only applies to custom-built rods, which I prefer by a wide margin.
Try not to let your mind wander. It is much too small to be outside unsupervised.

User avatar
Cal
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 12745
Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2004 5:31 pm
Location: TT Headquarters
Contact:

Re: Guides wrapped on the spine of the blank

Post by Cal » Sun Sep 25, 2022 8:29 am

GOOD YEAR 71 wrote: ↑
Thu Sep 22, 2022 1:23 pm
What I was taught is the spline (or spine call it whichever) ...
Spline: a thin wood or metal strip used in building construction. 2 : a key that is fixed to one of two connected mechanical parts and fits into a keyway in the other also : a keyway for such a key.

Spine: a series of vertebrae extending from the skull to the small of the back, enclosing the spinal cord and providing support for the thorax and abdomen; the backbone.

It's spine. ;)
Cal, Managing Editor
"fish with mindfulness : beware the darkside"

User avatar
GOOD YEAR 71
Elite Angler
Elite Angler
Posts: 553
Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2014 5:07 pm
Location: NorCal

Re: Guides wrapped on the spine of the blank

Post by GOOD YEAR 71 » Sun Sep 25, 2022 9:37 pm

Cal wrote: ↑
Sun Sep 25, 2022 8:29 am
GOOD YEAR 71 wrote: ↑
Thu Sep 22, 2022 1:23 pm
What I was taught is the spline (or spine call it whichever) ...
Spline: a thin wood or metal strip used in building construction. 2 : a key that is fixed to one of two connected mechanical parts and fits into a keyway in the other also : a keyway for such a key.

Spine: a series of vertebrae extending from the skull to the small of the back, enclosing the spinal cord and providing support for the thorax and abdomen; the backbone.

It's spine. ;)
1. the first automobile was conceptualized, created, marketed, and sold as horseless carriage. As such, if I choose to call my automobile a 'horseless carriage' then that is exactly what I am going to do lol

2. synonym: a word or phrase meaning same or nearly same as another word or phrase in the same language. As evidence, I offer auto or carriage (without horse), of which, to me, are sort of about the same lol

So let us be gentlemen, as we are, and both of us agree I am right and you are wrong. So there. Nuff said...
PEACE

User avatar
GOOD YEAR 71
Elite Angler
Elite Angler
Posts: 553
Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2014 5:07 pm
Location: NorCal

Re: Guides wrapped on the spine of the blank

Post by GOOD YEAR 71 » Sun Sep 25, 2022 9:38 pm

LOL
PEACE

dragon1
Pro Angler
Pro Angler
Posts: 10500
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2006 8:23 am
Location: Murfreesboro TN

Re: Guides wrapped on the spine of the blank

Post by dragon1 » Mon Sep 26, 2022 5:12 am

GOOD YEAR 71 wrote: ↑
Sun Sep 25, 2022 9:37 pm
Cal wrote: ↑
Sun Sep 25, 2022 8:29 am
GOOD YEAR 71 wrote: ↑
Thu Sep 22, 2022 1:23 pm
What I was taught is the spline (or spine call it whichever) ...
Spline: a thin wood or metal strip used in building construction. 2 : a key that is fixed to one of two connected mechanical parts and fits into a keyway in the other also : a keyway for such a key.

Spine: a series of vertebrae extending from the skull to the small of the back, enclosing the spinal cord and providing support for the thorax and abdomen; the backbone.

It's spine. ;)
1. the first automobile was conceptualized, created, marketed, and sold as horseless carriage. As such, if I choose to call my automobile a 'horseless carriage' then that is exactly what I am going to do lol

2. synonym: a word or phrase meaning same or nearly same as another word or phrase in the same language. As evidence, I offer auto or carriage (without horse), of which, to me, are sort of about the same lol

So let us be gentlemen, as we are, and both of us agree I am right and you are wrong. So there. Nuff said...
Lol...sharp, witty, and wry, good'un mango.
"It is like a finger pointing away to the Moon...don't concentrate on the finger, or you will miss all of that heavenly glory."

DrTrevorkian
Senior Angler
Senior Angler
Posts: 177
Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2018 8:01 am

Re: Guides wrapped on the spine of the blank

Post by DrTrevorkian » Wed Feb 22, 2023 8:57 am

Cal wrote: ↑
Sun Sep 25, 2022 8:29 am
GOOD YEAR 71 wrote: ↑
Thu Sep 22, 2022 1:23 pm
What I was taught is the spline (or spine call it whichever) ...
Spline: a thin wood or metal strip used in building construction. 2 : a key that is fixed to one of two connected mechanical parts and fits into a keyway in the other also : a keyway for such a key.

Spine: a series of vertebrae extending from the skull to the small of the back, enclosing the spinal cord and providing support for the thorax and abdomen; the backbone.

It's spine. ;)
^100%!

Words matter, folks!

User avatar
LowRange
Pro Angler
Pro Angler
Posts: 4775
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 9:18 am

Re: Guides wrapped on the spine of the blank

Post by LowRange » Wed Feb 22, 2023 12:52 pm

I'll never understand this wizardy. Its a carbon fiber cone. I see someone showing off the "spline" of the rod and its them pressing it into the carpet and making a declaration. Its like dousing rods or something. All my rods bend easily in all directions. None appear to have oval blanks. Is this some leftover thing from bamboo rods?

Post Reply