Who is the MOST over rated ?

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Re: Who is the MOST over rated ?

Post by ShimanoFan » Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:59 am

Poisson wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:52 am


Whooooaaaaa what happened in 1929? The graph goes way up, must have been good times right?
The source is clearly on the image... and here are others showing similar...
Last edited by ShimanoFan on Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
Why is there a concerted effort of hate? And why is it allowed?

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Re: Who is the MOST over rated ?

Post by Poisson » Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:15 am

ShimanoFan wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:59 am

The source is clearly on the image... and here are others showing similar...
The data is clearly valid, my comment was about the narrative you've attached to it. I was just trying to add a funny comment to a depressing thread but it wasn't very civil, my apologies. I don't really want to engage in a debate about monetary policy on a fishing forum.

Can we move on and talk about rods?

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Re: Who is the MOST over rated ?

Post by ShimanoFan » Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:40 am

Poisson wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:15 am
ShimanoFan wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:59 am

The source is clearly on the image... and here are others showing similar...
The data is clearly valid, my comment was about the narrative you've attached to it. I was just trying to add a funny comment to a depressing thread but it wasn't very civil, my apologies. I don't really want to engage in a debate about monetary policy on a fishing forum.

Can we move on and talk about rods?

I guess I did not understand your comment and thought it was aimed at the validity of the graph image.

So back to rods! Who is the most under rated? Oh wait, sorry, this is the over rated thread! :big grin: I'll throw MegaBass under the bus...
Last edited by ShimanoFan on Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
Why is there a concerted effort of hate? And why is it allowed?

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Re: Who is the MOST over rated ?

Post by Samuel_b » Wed Apr 17, 2019 7:44 am

Do trolls get banned around here or nah :roll:

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Re: Who is the MOST over rated ?

Post by ShimanoFan » Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:01 am

Personal comments have no place in forums like this.


There is waaaaay too much handle on these rods- and way too pricey too.
Image
Why is there a concerted effort of hate? And why is it allowed?

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Re: Who is the MOST over rated ?

Post by poisonokie » Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:42 am

Samuel_b wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 7:44 am
Do trolls get banned around here or nah :roll:
Nah
This is the way.

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Re: Who is the MOST over rated ?

Post by DrPerf » Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:08 am

ShimanoFan wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 3:10 am
Texas_bullet wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 6:40 pm
I read the TT review on the DX703. The pictures show a very different rod than my later production one. Seems I have imported blanks on my DX703 & DX704. Unfortunate, but it happens in many industries. Build a great first production run, then after rave reviews cheapen the product to meet a price point. Caveat emptor.
Exactly! And, then pay sponsor money to a former patriot who turned his back on U.S. labor to hawk them.

Sad to say, but there is zero credibility for this type of thing here in USA. Shame this is what we have come to. Wish we could reverse this situation and stop this sort of thing because people like this are contributing to this:

Image
Absolutely simplistic statement about purchasing power. Do some research on factors that affect purchasing power.
Here is a "Cliff Notes" version to start with:
https://www.investopedia.com/terms/p/pu ... gpower.asp

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Re: Who is the MOST over rated ?

Post by ShimanoFan » Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:30 am

DrPerf wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:08 am

Absolutely simplistic statement about purchasing power. Do some research on factors that affect purchasing power.
Here is a "Cliff Notes" version to start with:
https://www.investopedia.com/terms/p/pu ... gpower.asp
That's funny! It was meant to be simplistic for a reason... you know, a tackle forum... show a chart and move on kind of thing... not meant to be all encompassing. Gotta keep things simple... people complain when there are more than 2 sentences, and the slightest bit off topic. Then the fun begins...

I thought we were getting back to rods? ](*,)

MegaBass anyone?
Why is there a concerted effort of hate? And why is it allowed?

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Re: Who is the MOST over rated ?

Post by LgMouthGambler » Wed Apr 17, 2019 11:45 am

:doh:
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Re: Who is the MOST over rated ?

Post by ShimanoFan » Wed Apr 17, 2019 12:57 pm

It never fails LMG. Post info and turn upon the messenger! Tough crowd! :lol:

Man I just scored paydirt today digging through pawn shop rods. Found a made in USA graphite rod in perfect condition that is like 30 plus years old for $4.00. Gonna do some research on it and see if I can find who made it.

As for over rated... Quantum and MegaBass. At least Quantum has a good salesman...
Why is there a concerted effort of hate? And why is it allowed?

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Re: Who is the MOST over rated ?

Post by LgMouthGambler » Wed Apr 17, 2019 1:14 pm

Tell me about it. Too much emphasis on names, origin of build, etc. Every company will outsource, and that goes for damn near everything out there in the world. I bet there are many countries out there that go "such and such was made in the USA, what a piece of chit!". :lol: Its a safe bet that rods in the $100-200 range are gonna be pretty good, no matter what brand. I dont get all the hate for Dobyns rods, but thats just me, and I actually like their rods. Still wouldnt fork the money for a Extreme, but like the Sierra and Champion lines. I dont know, its like a giant "bashing" thread. ](*,)
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Re: Who is the MOST over rated ?

Post by ShimanoFan » Wed Apr 17, 2019 1:30 pm

LgMouthGambler wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 1:14 pm
Tell me about it. Too much emphasis on names, origin of build, etc. Every company will outsource, and that goes for damn near everything out there in the world. I bet there are many countries out there that go "such and such was made in the USA, what a piece of chit!". :lol: Its a safe bet that rods in the $100-200 range are gonna be pretty good, no matter what brand. I dont get all the hate for Dobyns rods, but thats just me, and I actually like their rods. Still wouldnt fork the money for a Extreme, but like the Sierra and Champion lines. I dont know, its like a giant "bashing" thread. ](*,)
I hear ya about the Dobyns thing, but you know on other forums they would not allow any of it because of paid sponsor money getting in the way of reality. It seems that here what is not allowed elsewhere is catching up to Dobyns. His rods are way over priced for what they are. Way over priced. If we could see what one of his $359 rods actually cost him to make, it would bring the house of cards down quickly. I call it artificially inflated pricing. Falcon is going that route right now. Same thing.

But LMG, let me ask you, do you have any Gary Loomis rods in your collection? Any Richard Kantner rods in your collection? Trey Kistler?

Point is when you get to use high end rods made by some of the best rod blank builders in the world it tends to spoil the user as it did me. I have spent 40 years buying and selling rods and reels and in my collection are some of the finest rod blanks ever made by some of the best rod blank builders in the world. I have one I call the crystal rod because it rings like a crystal glass does. An amazing rod. No one comes close to it. No one. Though I did find a UK company that is the ballpark, but it does not ring like crystal. With over 100 rods in my collection still, only one rings... a really strange phenomenon. I talked to one rod blank builder about it and he thinks he knows why, but if he did why don't his rods come close?

I do my homework, learn what I need to know, and then go out there and find them. Right now I am looking for a Don Mook rod that is so friggin' rare I have only seen 2 for sale in 10 years of looking. And both times I was next in line and missed them. I have one, but I want 5. And at this rate I'll be dead before I get to 3.

As with Quantum, you know, that is just brand name volleyball. We all know Quantum is really a zebco. Zebco had such a poor reputation they had to create another brand line to try and improve their line while dodging the rep. Shakespeare is doing the same thing today. Walk into any Academy Sports and buy an AllStar rod now made in China, and all it is, is a Shakespeare rod marketed under a different brand.

Most Americans could not care less so they get away with it.

But when it comes to high end rods... name is everything!
Why is there a concerted effort of hate? And why is it allowed?

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Re: Who is the MOST over rated ?

Post by smalljaw » Wed Apr 17, 2019 1:39 pm

ShimanoFan wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 1:30 pm
LgMouthGambler wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 1:14 pm
Tell me about it. Too much emphasis on names, origin of build, etc. Every company will outsource, and that goes for damn near everything out there in the world. I bet there are many countries out there that go "such and such was made in the USA, what a piece of chit!". :lol: Its a safe bet that rods in the $100-200 range are gonna be pretty good, no matter what brand. I dont get all the hate for Dobyns rods, but thats just me, and I actually like their rods. Still wouldnt fork the money for a Extreme, but like the Sierra and Champion lines. I dont know, its like a giant "bashing" thread. ](*,)
I hear ya about the Dobyns thing, but you know on other forums they would not allow any of it because of paid sponsor money getting in the way of reality. It seems that here what is not allowed elsewhere is catching up to Dobyns. His rods are way over priced for what they are. Way over priced. If we could see what one of his $359 rods actually cost him to make, it would bring the house of cards down quickly. I call it artificially inflated pricing. Falcon is going that route right now. Same thing.

But LMG, let me ask you, do you have any Gary Loomis rods in your collection? Any Richard Kantner rods in your collection? Trey Kistler?

Point is when you get to use high end rods made by some of the best rod blank builders in the world it tends to spoil the user as it did me. I have spent 40 years buying and selling rods and reels and in my collection are some of the finest rod blanks ever made by some of the best rod blank builders in the world. I have one I call the crystal rod because it rings like a crystal glass does. An amazing rod. No one comes close to it. No one. Though I did find a UK company that is the ballpark, but it does not ring like crystal. With over 100 rods in my collection still, only one rings... a really strange phenomenon. I talked to one rod blank builder about it and he thinks he knows why, but if he did why don't his rods come close?

I do my homework, learn what I need to know, and then go out there and find them. Right now I am looking for a Don Mook rod that is so friggin' rare I have only seen 2 for sale in 10 years of looking. And both times I was next in line and missed them. I have one, but I want 5. And at this rate I'll be dead before I get to 3.

As with Quantum, you know, that is just brand name volleyball. We all know Quantum is really a zebco. Zebco had such a poor reputation they had to create another brand line to try and improve their line while dodging the rep. Shakespeare is doing the same thing today. Walk into any Academy Sports and buy an AllStar rod now made in China, and all it is, is a Shakespeare rod marketed under a different brand.

Most Americans could not care less so they get away with it.

But when it comes to high end rods... name is everything!
You do know Trey Kistler isn't a blank builder, right? I wouldn't include him on a list with Gary Loomis, he almost ruined his business by going cheap when it came to blanks in order for higher profit. Then when the blanks began to fail enmasse, he stopped honoring the warranty. He went to the NFC blanks to build the business back, I know a lot of anglers that will never buy another Kistler because of his past practice in 2005-2006.

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Re: Who is the MOST over rated ?

Post by LgMouthGambler » Wed Apr 17, 2019 1:42 pm

No Loomis or Kistler. And I have no idea who the other guy is. :lol: I was offered a new Kistler that was a $250 rod for $130, which for $130 to me would be worth it. I had a Ex6 Loomis, but for the money, I hated the rod. Just felt crummy to me. Honestly, what isnt over priced now a days. The cost usually doesnt reflect the advantage the rod will give. I mean, you could take a $50 and fish braid and its sensitive. :lol: People think Im nuts with what I do with reels, and that Im OK with spending more money on the reel than I do on the rod. To each his/her own, and I dont care either way. I just think that, using Loomis rods as an example, spending $300-500 on a rod that is not a "custom", to me, is nuts.
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Re: Who is the MOST over rated ?

Post by ShimanoFan » Wed Apr 17, 2019 1:53 pm

smalljaw wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 1:39 pm

You do know Trey Kistler isn't a blank builder, right? I wouldn't include him on a list with Gary Loomis, he almost ruined his business by going cheap when it came to blanks in order for higher profit. Then when the blanks began to fail enmasse, he stopped honoring the warranty. He went to the NFC blanks to build the business back, I know a lot of anglers that will never buy another Kistler because of his past practice in 2005-2006.
Yes of course, but there is more to it than just he don't make rod blanks. And you are right I should not have named Trey specifically but his father who's name escapes me. I make the same mistake between Bill and Bob Batson. Who's the father, who's the son kind of thing. Dad gets the credit on this one.

His father came from Castaway rods and was part of a small but elite group of rod blank builders that my rods come from- a Texas group from which came numerous blank builders and the man who designed and built the factories the rods are made in along with the mandrels.

The Kistler angle was having rods made by the desired group but specifically designed per Kistler. I have several of these and grab them every chance I can. Kistler made it happen or else some of the rods I have would not exist. And some are extremely rare like my Ray Scott signature brand built on the super lightweight Kistler helium rod blanks made custom specially FOR Kistler by..... a specific factory near Houston...

A very unique combination... and amazing rods too! So I give the Kistlers as much credit- or his father- for the early USA made rods he designed. They are exceptional rods. I found online a synopsis of this background of his father's:

"It all started in my garage with a giant order from a good customer of my father’s after he left Castaway Rods. Like most of the rod companies in the world today, we too had to rely on other graphite blank factories to make our blanks. We chose to use a US based graphite blank factory that we will call Factory A to protect their identity. They were happy to supply me with 4,000 blanks in order for me to produce high quality American made rods for my customer. During the startup year of 1999, we designed over a dozen bass specific actions with the help of Factory A and their 30 years of expertise with graphite. I originally chose Factory A because of a working relationship I had developed while employed at Castaway, I experienced firsthand the quality and anglers satisfaction from using their blanks on specific Castaway rods.

Fast forward a few years into the rod business, Factory A began to lesson their on quality on our blanks as well as ship us inconsistent blank actions. Kistler Rods had to warranty, at no charge to the consumer, over 20% of our rods due to defects in materials that Factory A built for us. To my surprise, Factory A did not accept responsibility for the defects and it cost Kistler Rods thousands of dollars which is a ton of money to a small business. After that disappointing set of events, we began searching for a new US based blank supplier, we found two. So in order to become diversified, we started working with both at the same time. Factory B began building our IM7 blanks and Factory C began building our Helium LTA blanks.

Both had good quality and supplied our needs sufficiently although we did have some design issues causing breakage which Kistler Rods honored warranties 100% with no support from our suppliers. We did create quite a buzz in the rod industry with our new Helium “lighter than air” rods all the while providing anglers with the lightest rod ever. One could argue that we created the trend to push the envelope in lighter weight rods that we all enjoy today. Well all good things must come to an end, so they say. Factory C began to have problems supplying the numbers we needed to keep up with demand and was concentrating on their own line of rods. This was the second time a rod/blank company would shift their efforts away from supporting Kistler Rods to their own needs. In my opinion, it was because Kistler Rods had become a big competitor in their own market.

Factory B later decided to close up operations and begin producing their blanks in China forcing Kistler for the first time to use a blank not made in America. We had no choice at this time as there were no other blank factories in the US willing to support our business..."
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