Reel impact on perception of rod sensitivty

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DavidSA
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Reel impact on perception of rod sensitivty

Post by DavidSA » Fri Dec 18, 2015 6:54 am

I'm wondering how many of you have experimented with the impact of perceived sensitivity of a rig based on reel weight and or composition?

Over the past 10 months, I have discovered how much this can change perception of sensitivity. It started in late 2014 when I bought a NRX894. At everyone's suggestion I started with a 7.5oz alum based reel. After a few winter trips, I determined I really liked the 894's combination of power and weight. Sensitivity I thought was very good. Case closed. Good enough that I bought my second 894 for big bass applications. Mounted a Shimano CI4 on it with 30# braid.

Along comes June and I pick up a Metanium XG. Mount it on the 894 instead of the 7.5oz alum with 30# braid. Fishing underweight shaky heads over riprap I start to believe the rig is more sensitive then I had imagined. It was a little more feel on the rocks but honestly it was bites that I detected that honestly don't feel like bites. My theory is fish hit the bait on the fall and was swimming toward me. After extensive testing of reels with the same line, same lure on identical 894's I conclude without doubt the Metanium reel makes the rig more sensitive. It took a rod I thought was very good to as good as any rod I have felt.

All my older bottom bouncing rigs have metanium based reels on them simply because they were light. I never really gave consideration, or I have forgotten, how well this material and or the weight transmits vibration.

Interested in others experience. I'm not sure someone would come to this conclusion without doubt unless you have identical rods, line, and lure with reel being only difference.

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Re: Reel impact on perception of rod sensitivty

Post by goldrod » Fri Dec 18, 2015 8:53 am

With the laminglas 735c rod i felt it was a great rod but it wasnt until i paired it with an 100MG that it really shined.
I was using sheshi line which is mono and I recall fishing the st. johns with a 3/8 football jig and i can tell the difference between grass and bream. It was just a pure pleasure to fish with, yet my original reels D7, zillion and pxtr never gave me that
feel with the rod. Im now on to IS79 with floro and the jury is still out.

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Re: Reel impact on perception of rod sensitivty

Post by IAY » Fri Dec 18, 2015 9:50 am

That could be due to the material of the reel. Metanium 13 has Magnesium body and aluminum gear, which doesn't dampen the vibration as much as aluminum bodied, brass geared reels. I am not a engineer or physicist, so please feel free to correct me.

DavidSA
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Re: Reel impact on perception of rod sensitivty

Post by DavidSA » Fri Dec 18, 2015 10:06 pm

My theory is it is about the magnesium frame more so then weight though one could argue that with less weight the reel itself can't dampen feel as much. Had not considered the gear material but that could be as big or bigger factor. Glad to see at least Goldrod has experienced this affect.

The reels I compared against my Met were of different brands, weights and were very nice reels. This has nothing to do with how good the reel is, just how good it transmits vibration.

I have an acre size pond near me with riprap around the edges and small bass and bream. This makes the perfect type area to do these type tests because you can hit roughly the same objects with both rigs and you can get bites.

for those that have not experimented in this way, the sensitivity difference is can be substantial. It may explain why some guys will claim a rod was lively and another dead in the same thread. I see so many posts asking about how the sensitivity of rod a compares to b. My belief is the inferior rod with the right reel may at times perform better then the better rod with wrong reel.

I carry 16 rigs in my boat and it hits me that every bottom bouncing rig has a magnesium based reel on it. All the moving bait rigs have alum. Not sure I planned it this way but this is the way it has worked out.

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Re: Reel impact on perception of rod sensitivty

Post by QUAKEnSHAKE » Fri Dec 18, 2015 10:32 pm

Yes different reels have different feel.

from this thread I posted about my supremeXT and stradic
http://forums.tackletour.com/viewtopic. ... 9&start=30
"I agree with reels being more or less sensitive from one to another. You can test a reels feel/vibration transmission by holding the line 10" or so in front of the reel, give some slack between fingers and reel, and then hop a jig and you will feel the vibes more in the center and tip of rod. Let go of the line and hop jig some more and now the feel through the reel comes in and yes reels have diffent amount s of vibrations that pass. My new Supreme XT is more sensitive than my StradicFI Ive done this test between them."

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Re: Reel impact on perception of rod sensitivty

Post by masterbass » Fri Dec 18, 2015 11:00 pm

That's interesting. Do you have other magnesium reels to compare to the met?

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Re: Reel impact on perception of rod sensitivty

Post by lpquick » Sat Dec 19, 2015 12:10 am

I own an Evergreen SuperStallion and the difference is night and day depending on which reel it’s mated with. I wanted to use my MB Origin with this rod for some bottom contact, carolina rig fishing. I was not impressed and blamed the rod for the poor feel and sensitivity. The very next day I decided to give the rod another chance along with my opinion and mounted my CQ 101DC using the same 12# mono line. I noticed immediately how much more lively the rod felt and proceeded to put a thumping on sone nice black drum. The same spot I was at the day before when I couldn’t feel the bite until I switched rods to my NRX 873 & MB monoblock. I did’t think changing reels would make a difference but it really did. I know now that I need to check out a few reels with a new rod before I can determine the rods performance. Wake up call! :-k

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Re: Reel impact on perception of rod sensitivty

Post by DavidSA » Sat Dec 19, 2015 1:52 am

I just tried some tests in my house on a new flipping stick just now where I was switching from the Met to a CI4. I have to admit I found this very difficult because I both hear and see things that are not in play on the water. Further, the time to switch reels disrupts my memory. Even in my on the water tests over the summer, it took me time to believe the difference.

When I first got a Met I took it to the pond and fished it. Somewhere in that it planted a seed that I had better feel then the rod at home with a CI4 mounted on it. After 5 trips to the pond doing head to head tests, I conclude the Met/894 better sensitivity wise then other reels on the Met. Then a week in Florida actually catching fish, feeling weeds, and sand bottoms confirmed to me it translated to better fishing. I find I order a new Met when I get home.

I can't say if the Met has any advantage over another Magn. based reel such as the old Chronarch MG50. That would be an interesting experiment but I guess my thought is that would require several weeks on and off the water to determine that to a point where I have conviction. My guess is we don't see many posts like this in the forum because most guys don't compare exact rigs over time where the only difference is the reel.

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Re: Reel impact on perception of rod sensitivty

Post by toddmc » Sat Dec 19, 2015 2:33 am

David Fritts fished the original Lew's reels because he liked the thin left sideplate and their overall feel for crankbaits. He had a BPS reel made to his specs when Lew's was no longer in business. He continues to make sure that the new reels have the "proper feel" according to him for crankbaits. It's not your imagination that some reels feel better/more sensitive with some applications and on different rods. I agree that the lighter magnesium framed reels tend to feel better with bottom contact baits.

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Re: Reel impact on perception of rod sensitivty

Post by Bootytrain » Sat Dec 19, 2015 2:38 am

DavidSA wrote:I just tried some tests in my house on a new flipping stick just now where I was switching from the Met to a CI4. I have to admit I found this very difficult because I both hear and see things that are not in play on the water. Further, the time to switch reels disrupts my memory. Even in my on the water tests over the summer, it took me time to believe the difference.

When I first got a Met I took it to the pond and fished it. Somewhere in that it planted a seed that I had better feel then the rod at home with a CI4 mounted on it. After 5 trips to the pond doing head to head tests, I conclude the Met/894 better sensitivity wise then other reels on the Met. Then a week in Florida actually catching fish, feeling weeds, and sand bottoms confirmed to me it translated to better fishing. I find I order a new Met when I get home.

I can't say if the Met has any advantage over another Magn. based reel such as the old Chronarch MG50. That would be an interesting experiment but I guess my thought is that would require several weeks on and off the water to determine that to a point where I have conviction. My guess is we don't see many posts like this in the forum because most guys don't compare exact rigs over time where the only difference is the reel.
Maybe you should try an Aldebaran 50. Mag frame bit st 1.5 oz lighter it should amplify any vibration.

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Re: Reel impact on perception of rod sensitivty

Post by DavidSA » Sat Dec 19, 2015 2:43 am

yep, thinking about trying one on my NRX 803c

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Re: Reel impact on perception of rod sensitivty

Post by Dink Dawg » Sat Dec 19, 2015 3:57 am

Remember when reels had the foot made of chromed steel and were attached with two rivets? Remember when reel seats were aluminum and shimmed with tape or cork to fit the blank? Materials and design have progressively enhanced the feel over the decades. Certain lines transmit vibration better than others. Certain guides transfer that vibration to the blank. Certain blanks paired with a reel seat system transmit vibration to the hand and reel and the reel itself can continue to transmit vibration to the hand. The whole package contributes and reel materials are a part of that equation. I can agree a reel's design and materials is it transmits vibration would or could be discernible to the hand. There has never been a time that has seen so much superb gear available to anglers. It's incredible. =D>

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Re: Reel impact on perception of rod sensitivty

Post by mark poulson » Sat Dec 19, 2015 11:38 am

I have found that, if you use the same fluorocarbon line on both reels, on the same sensitive rod, and pass the line over your reel-palming index finger, both reels will feel the same. If you are throwing cranks or spinnerbaits with the same line and rod, but different reels, and using the same crank on both setups, you might feel a small difference, but I think it has more to do with how smooth the reels are, and whether their mechanical actions are course enough to become distracting.
For me, a sensitive rod and fluorocarbon line will transmit the best, no matter which reel you use.
The reel has more to do with the cast, the winching ability, and the smoothness of the retrieve that with how sensitive my setup is.

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Re: Reel impact on perception of rod sensitivty

Post by DavidSA » Sat Dec 19, 2015 9:07 pm

your reply Mark reminds me of an interaction I had with a Sales rep in a fishing store in March. He told me he felt a reel was uncomfortable to palm, I told him I felt otherwise. He showed me his grip then I demonstrated mine; completely different. Both of us were right :lol:

I can see where touching the line before it gets to the reel would basically make reels a mute point. Just not the way I hold the reel unless is a finesse rig such as a dropshot. Your point may explain why reel sensitivity does not get much talk.

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Re: Reel impact on perception of rod sensitivty

Post by adam lancia » Sat Dec 19, 2015 9:50 pm

DavidSA wrote:your reply Mark reminds me of an interaction I had with a Sales rep in a fishing store in March. He told me he felt a reel was uncomfortable to palm, I told him I felt otherwise. He showed me his grip then I demonstrated mine; completely different. Both of us were right :lol:

I can see where touching the line before it gets to the reel would basically make reels a mute point. Just not the way I hold the reel unless is a finesse rig such as a dropshot. Your point may explain why reel sensitivity does not get much talk.
Because I have big hands, I find it uncomfortable to palm the reel in a way that I can have a finger on the line. I also palm the reel the way I cast it, with 2 fingers in front of the trigger. The only time I change that is when I'm using a jerkbait or top water, then I'll put and extra finger in front of the trigger.

So is the consensus that a magnesium frame and some sort of aluminum gear set will transmit vibration through the reel best (all other things being equal)?

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