The reason for recoils

trent_s · Post by **trent_s** » Tue Jan 20, 2015 2:35 am

dragon1 wrote:
Bantam1 wrote:The Torzite guides groove. We found that while performing tests in the lab and on the water. I'm pretty sure we will not offer these guides on Shimano or G.Loomis rods. Yes they are light, but the material is not as hard as the SIC or even Alconite. We had high hopes for these guides. It was disappointing to find out they grooved so badly.

REC Recoil guides can groove. The material is not consistent in terms of hardness. Typically it happens with fluorocarbon lines and not braided line. I have had it happen to a few of my personal rods. It started a lot of research and meetings on our end with REC. REC tightened up their QC to ensure the material meets the correct hardness spec.

G.Loomis went to them for a few reasons. The warranty replacement was supposed to go down. The guides were supposed to be more durable and more sensitive.
Thanks Bantam1...you are a superb rep for Shimano/G.Loomis as always. And yes, most of the TT members had "ass u me d" that durability/warranty/sensitivity were key elements as to why the RECs were chosen. I just personally wonder "why" on the NRX (maybe aside sensitivity for certain techs where the RECs "might" enhance sensitivity)?

I personally love my REC's, and my builds still have the original double foot silver guides on them like the BCR's had, again except the first 2 or 3 depending on the build. I have no doubt they are more sensitive for bottom contact with fluorocarbon, as I replaced a BCR 852 and 853 with the new GLX's that have TSic's when they first came out. And in my hands the difference in sensitivity between the new rods is significant. Although I like the look of the TSic's and their versatility, if I'm jigging deep I'm picking up a rod with REC's.
I did just order my second NRX...and the first time a guide does groove on it or any of my other customs you can bet I will be on here crying and whining

until then I'm going to enjoy them and keep trucking.

Tight lines guys!

Jeffbro999 · Post by **Jeffbro999** » Tue Jan 20, 2015 2:41 am

Bantam1 wrote:I have never seen 4 fail at the same time without some sort of non fishing related problem. Especially in the way you have pictured. I will pass this along to my buddy at Loomis to see what he has to say.

Thanks Bantam. A little background, I have no idea if its directly fishing related but it happened during the day while fishing or loading and unloading gear at the hotel which is something we do all the time. Didnt use warranty because I figured it was my fault. Maybe the line got caught up in there. Didn't notice them broken until the next morning but I would think these guides would withstand a lot based on the marketing. Stepping on a guide is something I never do and is a lot worse than anything that happened to these. Have not had any issues out of the rest of my Recoils so just wanted to pass this along. Thanks for getting the info out there.
-Jeff

JWR075 · Post by **JWR075** » Tue Jan 20, 2015 4:47 am

I would rather have recoils (especially the black series) on a huger dollar rod than SS guide inserts.

Bantam 1 did Shimano give Fuji a chance to replace the Torzite guides? Could it have been a bad batch?

Sore Thumb · Post by **Sore Thumb** » Tue Jan 20, 2015 6:13 pm

The story we are being told Down Under is that a rift appeared between Fuji and some rod manufacturers, including Shimano, for marketing their rods as using Fuji guides, but that were not genuine Fuji components. Perhaps this has clouded the argument in some quarters.

dragon1 · Post by **dragon1** » Thu Jan 22, 2015 5:04 am

Hmmm...interested "Down Under Story".

FWIW, RECs are also not the best guides for line speed on casts, or passing knots...especially (wet) braid to mono/co-poly/fluoro

I suppose if I fished jigs/plastics/tubes and other slack line techs specifically with fluoro, then RECs may be an advantage that would override my inclination to NOT like them.

ScoobyDoo · Post by **ScoobyDoo** » Thu Jan 22, 2015 2:08 pm

Bantam1 wrote:The Torzite guides groove. We found that while performing tests in the lab and on the water. I'm pretty sure we will not offer these guides on Shimano or G.Loomis rods. Yes they are light, but the material is not as hard as the SIC or even Alconite. We had high hopes for these guides. It was disappointing to find out they grooved so badly.

REC Recoil guides can groove. The material is not consistent in terms of hardness. Typically it happens with fluorocarbon lines and not braided line. I have had it happen to a few of my personal rods. It started a lot of research and meetings on our end with REC. REC tightened up their QC to ensure the material meets the correct hardness spec.

G.Loomis went to them for a few reasons. The warranty replacement was supposed to go down. The guides were supposed to be more durable and more sensitive.

FYI....Shimano already has production rods with ti torzite......just sayin.

cbream · Post by **cbream** » Fri Jan 23, 2015 4:26 am

"The Torzite guides groove."

Dan,

I cannot believe you made this statement. Until you can show some "lab tests" validating this as a fact, I say you are full of it. Shimano and Fuji have had an excellent business relationship for many years. If, and only if, Shimano found this type of flaw with Torzite guides, why not approach Fuji privately, rather than a blind side attack on a public forum? Not to be disrespectful but if such an attack was deemed necessary, why send you into the fire?

Please do not come back here and say your "lab tests" are somehow corporate secrets and customers do not have any need to know. If that turns out to be the case, don't bother.

To be clear, I have no "lab tests", only just about a year, 200 days fishing with Torzite guides in fresh and saltwater without the first hint of a problem.

njbasscat · Post by **njbasscat** » Fri Jan 23, 2015 8:32 am

cbream wrote:"The Torzite guides groove."

Dan,

I cannot believe you made this statement. Until you can show some "lab tests" validating this as a fact, I say you are full of it. Shimano and Fuji have had an excellent business relationship for many years. If, and only if, Shimano found this type of flaw with Torzite guides, why not approach Fuji privately, rather than a blind side attack on a public forum? Not to be disrespectful but if such an attack was deemed necessary, why send you into the fire?

Please do not come back here and say your "lab tests" are somehow corporate secrets and customers do not have any need to know. If that turns out to be the case, don't bother.

To be clear, I have no "lab tests", only just about a year, 200 days fishing with Torzite guides in fresh and saltwater without the first hint of a problem.

Wow dude, relax!

StarTzar · Post by **StarTzar** » Fri Jan 23, 2015 9:03 am

njbasscat wrote: Wow dude, relax!

He got his torzite pinched by the recoil.

facelessnewsouth · Post by **facelessnewsouth** » Fri Jan 23, 2015 9:27 am

njbasscat wrote:
cbream wrote:"The Torzite guides groove."

Dan,

I cannot believe you made this statement. Until you can show some "lab tests" validating this as a fact, I say you are full of it. Shimano and Fuji have had an excellent business relationship for many years. If, and only if, Shimano found this type of flaw with Torzite guides, why not approach Fuji privately, rather than a blind side attack on a public forum? Not to be disrespectful but if such an attack was deemed necessary, why send you into the fire?

Please do not come back here and say your "lab tests" are somehow corporate secrets and customers do not have any need to know. If that turns out to be the case, don't bother.

To be clear, I have no "lab tests", only just about a year, 200 days fishing with Torzite guides in fresh and saltwater without the first hint of a problem.
Wow dude, relax!

Glad I wasn't the only one thinking that when I read this...

ScoobyDoo · Post by **ScoobyDoo** » Fri Jan 23, 2015 10:07 am

http://fish.shimano-eu.com/content/eu/e ... nning.html

Shimano factory rod currently with torzites

contrary to what bantam said

facelessnewsouth · Post by **facelessnewsouth** » Fri Jan 23, 2015 11:09 am

I think it's worth mentioning that Loomis NRX rods were on the market a year or two before Fuji finally released Torzite guides to the masses...perhaps they refined them in that time, I don't know.

trent_s · Post by **trent_s** » Fri Jan 23, 2015 11:43 am

Why does any discussion involving guides always turn into this ^^^

i_am_R2 · Post by **i_am_R2** » Fri Jan 23, 2015 11:59 am

facelessnewsouth wrote:
njbasscat wrote:
cbream wrote:"The Torzite guides groove."

Dan,

I cannot believe you made this statement. Until you can show some "lab tests" validating this as a fact, I say you are full of it. Shimano and Fuji have had an excellent business relationship for many years. If, and only if, Shimano found this type of flaw with Torzite guides, why not approach Fuji privately, rather than a blind side attack on a public forum? Not to be disrespectful but if such an attack was deemed necessary, why send you into the fire?

Please do not come back here and say your "lab tests" are somehow corporate secrets and customers do not have any need to know. If that turns out to be the case, don't bother.

To be clear, I have no "lab tests", only just about a year, 200 days fishing with Torzite guides in fresh and saltwater without the first hint of a problem.
Wow dude, relax!
Glad I wasn't the only one thinking that when I read this...

Same here. Beer thirty at the Fuji office?

SS Fishing · Post by **SS Fishing** » Fri Jan 23, 2015 2:09 pm

Same thing with Recoils. I have built over 200 custom rods and use them on all of my rods from trout to Chinook and saltwater rods. Never had a guide groove. Not with mono, fluoro or braid. They get dirty and need to be cleaned from time to time and that dirt and grime can look like grooves but once they are cleaned the rings are perfect again! There are haters with anything. I think both recoils and torzites are good guides.

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