New fad? Carbon tape

[Nytron]

Why did Shimano, Abu Garcia, and others re-launch their most popular freshwater rods with spiral wrapped carbon tape? They chose to do this the exact same year, I don't get it. Did the price of carbon go down or? Please help me come up with pros and cons of spiral wrapping a rod in carbon tape:

Pros:
- It increases durability.

Both Pro & Con:
- Alters action of rod (stiffer), see this post.
- Carbon-fiber aesthetic.

Cons:
- Decreases sensitivity.
- Increases weight, unless they decrease blank wall thickness or modify rod blank for tape.
- Increases cost.

Personally, I will always want sensitivity over durability. With freshwater rods, less is more. The main thing the carbon wrap is designed to do is to prevent ovalization of the rod blank under load. If you reach the point of rod ovalization, you are setting the hook too hard or your reel's drag is too tight. My theory: carbon tape is designed to help manufacturers deal with less rod breakage incidents. The only techniques I can think of in bass fishing where rod durability even slightly matters is punching mats. edit: Two I forgot: Flipping big bass into boat and american-style powerful hooksets.

[smalljaw]

I've been at this since the 80s and the trend has been lighter and faster but I started to notice that around 2004 or 2005 that manufacturers were now tackling durability and since that has happened the rods are getting heavier and less sensitive but they are also getting a lot longer which is another reason for the carbon tape. I think the durability thing is becoming an issue with increased coverage of Tournaments, specifically B.A.S.S. events in which nets aren't used so you see a lot of pros boat flipping 4lb bass. I know of 2 guys that regularly break high end rods even though they are told it is wrong and considered abuse of your rod when you boat flip but they insist that since the pros do it, well then they should be able to also and the rods should not break. I think that is why the carbon tape is being used so much but I'm on the other side, I like rods to be light and strong when used correctly, I never boat flip fish as it isn't good for the rod or the fish.

[tywithay]

I don't think all of the higher end rods are using carbon tape. I think the highest end blanks are actually wrapping the prepreg in 45 degree patterns to create the cross-weave. The cheaper versions are using carbon tape so that they can make "cool" rods that look like high end blanks. Me personally, have some rods with and several without, haven't seen much of a difference.

[angry john]

The pro's have money on the line and have equipment given to them. If they break a rod, another 6 free ones are on the way. Use a net or your hand. If you brake a rod being lazy accept the cost of your maneuver!!!

[Valky]

Apart from Durability, the carbon cross wrap can also increasing rod power.

I had visit a very famous rod factory in China and we test a light jigging rod. we can see that with everything being equal, in weight lift testing, carbon wrap blank giving more stiffness and power lift. The blank that we test are very fine blank at Megabass or Evergreen quality already. So this carbon wrap really increase it power and durabilty.

Also there also many type of wrap, lower section wrap to have the final power when needed and full wrapped to get full power from head to tail. From what I test a full wrap on a 6.6 light jigging blank increase weight from 41 gram to 45 gram, just 4 grams different, when calculating in percentage it is 10% increase in blank weight. But wait a minute, once you make them fully build it would be 104 grams and 108 grams the different down to only 3.8% will that make different, off course you will not notice the different in your hand. For sensitivity there are other factors that you should concerns more than the weight of the blank alone, number of guides, balance, handle built, etc....

As we all know, a good 24-30 tons rod that are really well built oftenly giving a wonderful sensitivity. And you must also accept that many guy buy this low tonnage rod under fancy brand name at 300-400 USD

[Hogsticker2]

I kinda think people are taken back by the aesthetics of carbon tape wrapped in various patterns with a glossy coat over the top of it. For those who understand what purpose it serves, and even those who don't, fishermen get caught. A majority of these rods have the tape in just the section above the reel seat. I'm not sure I've ever seen a rod break in that area. If the entire blanks wrapped I suppose you have to decide if strength or sensitivity is of more importance. Some applications require more of one than the other, but it would be nice to have the best of both worlds.

[spookybaits]

Apart from Durability, the carbon cross wrap can also increasing rod power.

I had visit a very famous rod factory in China and we test a light jigging rod. we can see that with everything being equal, in weight lift testing, carbon wrap blank giving more stiffness and power lift. The blank that we test are very fine blank at Megabass or Evergreen quality already. So this carbon wrap really increase it power and durabilty.

Also there also many type of wrap, lower section wrap to have the final power when needed and full wrapped to get full power from head to tail. From what I test a full wrap on a 6.6 light jigging blank increase weight from 41 gram to 45 gram, just 4 grams different, when calculating in percentage it is 10% increase in blank weight. But wait a minute, once you make them fully build it would be 104 grams and 108 grams the different down to only 3.8% will that make different, off course you will not notice the different in your hand. For sensitivity there are other factors that you should concerns more than the weight of the blank alone, number of guides, balance, handle built, etc....

As we all know, a good 24-30 tons rod that are really well built oftenly giving a wonderful sensitivity. And you must also accept that many guy buy this low tonnage rod under fancy brand name at 300-400 USD

Good post!

[MDisbrow]

Why did Shimano, Abu Garcia, and others re-launch their most popular freshwater rods with spiral wrapped carbon tape? They chose to do this the exact same year, I don't get it. Did the price of carbon go down or? Please help me come up with pros and cons of spiral wrapping a rod in carbon tape:

Pros:
It increases durability

Cons:
Decreases sensitivity
Increases weight
Increases cost

Personally, I will always want sensitivity over durability. With freshwater rods, less is more. The main thing the carbon wrap is designed to do is to prevent ovalization of the rod blank under load. If you reach the point of rod ovalization, you are setting the hook too hard or your reel's drag is too tight. My theory: carbon tape is designed to help manufacturers deal with less rod breakage incidents. The only technique I can think of in bass fishing where rod durability even slightly matters is punching mats.

What makes you certain it decreases sensitivity or increases weight? I'm honestly asking, not trying to start a pissing match.

Now I'm not an expert in the history of fishing rod blank design, but I've worked with a lot of glass and carbon as well as different resin systems.

The carbon "tape" is not a tape like scotch or duct. It's material like the full pre-preg rolls they roll the entire blank from, it's just cut in narrow widths.

Whereas in the past you may have had blanks that were designed with fibers running tip to butt, and then another layer of fiber running around the mandrel to give a blank fibers on a 0 and 90* axis, with the tape in a spiral/helix around the blank, you're running fibers at +/- 45* to the length of the rod. By having fibers running 4 different axes, the double bias "tape" you're asking about, actually makes a blank lighter than a rod of equal strength constructed with only 0/90 fibers, because you will most likely have to increase wall thickness to achieve the same strength/power.

I kinda think people are taken back by the aesthetics of carbon tape wrapped in various patterns with a glossy coat over the top of it. For those who understand what purpose it serves, and even those who don't, fishermen get caught. A majority of these rods have the tape in just the section above the reel seat. I'm not sure I've ever seen a rod break in that area. If the entire blanks wrapped I suppose you have to decide if strength or sensitivity is of more importance. Some applications require more of one than the other, but it would be nice to have the best of both worlds.

The purpose of the double bias fiber in the butt section of the rod, is to stiffen/strengthen the backbone of the rod. For casting, pitching, etc. the tip will feel the same, but when setting the hook or fighting a fish, you get to the powerful section of the rod quicker. OR, the double bias fiber in the butt section allows a rod to be built with less material in the butt and still maintain a nice smooth action without affecting how the tip/mid of the blank feels when casting.

And it seems most peoples opinions on rod performance, weight is directly linked to sensitivity. Stronger blanks on all 4 axes, or equally as strong blanks using less material... Point is, the potential for either stronger, or lighter, is there for the manufacturer to decide what to do with this technology. Maybe even a new "best of both." I sure as hell wouldn't dismiss buying a blank built like this. I'd prefer it.

[Nytron]

Good points so far, I modified original post to include some of them.

My theory behind decreasing sensitivity is because it would seem a solid piece of graphite is a much better transmitter of vibrations than that same piece of graphite with woven carbon sheets. Any time you add something to a rod, it is going to be less sensitive.

This is assuming the blank is the same though. The poster above me brings up a good point: the rod blanks could be redesigned by manufacturers knowing they are using carbon tape (thinner blank walls, different action, etc). Still it seems like reducing the thickness of the graphite and adding carbon would give up some sensitivity.

[MDisbrow]

But a blank is not a solid piece of graphite. A blank is layer up on layer of carbon fibers.

Don't look at the double bias +/-45 fibers on a megabass XX or the quad fibers on the X4 or K2 as though they're added to the blank. They are part of the blank design. And typically when you're dealing with these small bundles of fiber, like the fibers that show the pattern on the XX, the fibers are packed much tighter together than when they are in a sheet of prepreg. You can actually achieve a higher ratio of fiber to resin, getting the most performance out of the fiber while adding less excess weight.

[Martin Lo]

Are rods with the 45deg bias lighter than the conventional rods?

I've noticed K2s are lighter than say an UMBX ( and just about anything else) of the same line class but that could depend on taper and composition

[MDisbrow]

Are rods with the 45deg bias lighter than the conventional rods?

I've noticed K2s are lighter than say an UMBX ( and just about anything else) of the same line class but that could depend on taper and composition

That would depend entirely on the manufacturers purpose for using the db wrap. You can compare the specs of two different blanks and formulate an opinion, which is exactly what I'd have to do to answer your question. I just don't want to sound like I have all the answers here. I'm only saying why manufacturers use these materials in fiber reinforced products, and what the advantages are. I started off my first post saying I have no experience designing or manufacturing a fishing rod blank. I just have a lot of experience with using the same or similar raw materials in production of other parts.