Muskie Rods for Alabama Rigs

[vtbasser]

My story.

I've been fishing the Alabama Rig sporadically since the fall. I've had been casting it on two rods, with both braid, and fluoro. The rods I used were a 7 foot, heavy power/fast action Diawa L/T and a 7-9, heavy power/extra fast action Carrot Stix. Both worked Ok. The reels I used were either a Revo S (7-1) or Premier (6-1).

Yesterday I fished an Alabama Rig on St. Croix Legend Elite (or something like that) muskie rod, it was 8 foot, and a MH/F. I don't know what it was rater as far as line/ounces so. The reel on it was a larger, widespool, inshore, Quantum, lined with braid.

The first two rods have performed fine but felt outclassed by the Alabama rig. The muskie rod felt awesome. It was light in my hands and actually controlled the rig. It also cast a lot better and the reel seemed to just handle the whole process more easily (I wish I knew the gear ratio).

So I guess my question is this: is a muskie rod truly the better rod for throwing an Alabama Rig or, should I look for something in-between what I've been using and the muskie rods I used? Or, was the wide spool reel perhaps more important in the package?

Thoughts? Questions? Comments?

[RIK]

If I were to throw an A-rig (not legal where I'm at so...) I'd probably pick up one of my muskie rods.

Muskie rods are designed to throw big, heavy, wind-resistant baits, so they have the power to cast an A-rig (which isn't that big by muskie standards - we throw lots of 4-8 ounce baits). But that's only half the equation I think. Muskie rods - good ones anyhow - are still more than pool cues. They have a progressive power curve from a fast tip section to a very powerful backbone - same as a good spinnerbait rod, just with more overall power. A pool cue with no stretch line and great big hooks just means lost fish. Plus, a good muskie rod loads up on a a cast so you aren't just muscling a big bait out there with arms strength alone. Nothing's more tiring than casting a big bait on a rod that doesn't load up well.

I think those characteristics will be easier to find in a muskie rod than a heavy or x-heavy bass rod. Some of the heavy punching rods I've seen would make lousy muskie rods because they are too stiff throughout the blank without enough tip give to soak up the shock of a big head-shaking fish on superline.

You're also likely right on the reel playing a role. Muskie reels are typically wide spool reels with fairly low gear ratios. The Abu 7000 is a classic example. With a large diameter wide spool you still get good line pick-up, but pulling big, water-resistant baits is easy. A synchronized level wind really helps casting distance too. If I were gearing up for an A-rig, I'd look hard at a Revo Toro...

Anyhow - I'd sure look at a muskie rod. They're build for this kind of stuff. Some of the new A-rig specific rods coming out now would probably make pretty good muskie rods

[bigreddog]

Musky rods -- for bass?

It's probably just me and my light-tackle roots, but I get the feeling that we've really crossed the threshold where we're fighting our tackle more than the fish we're trying to catch...

[mhood]

Musky rods -- for bass?

It's probably just me and my light-tackle roots, but I get the feeling that we've really crossed the threshold where we're fighting our tackle more than the fish we're trying to catch...

Wurd!

[CALL ME RIFLE]

Musky rods -- for bass?

It's probably just me and my light-tackle roots, but I get the feeling that we've really crossed the threshold where we're fighting our tackle more than the fish we're trying to catch...

Wurd!

I guess we can make that one a x3....just doesnt seem like much fun or sport if the fish doesnt have a chance in the fight..

[vtbasser]

Musky rods -- for bass?

It's probably just me and my light-tackle roots, but I get the feeling that we've really crossed the threshold where we're fighting our tackle more than the fish we're trying to catch...

Wurd!

I guess we can make that one a x3....just doesnt seem like much fun or sport if the fish doesnt have a chance in the fight..

C'mon guys. I land over 90% of the smallies I hook on 5 pound test on a drop-shot on Champlain.

[wnyBob]

Yesterday I fished an Alabama Rig on St. Croix Legend Elite (or something like that) muskie rod, it was 8 foot, and a MH/F. I don't know what it was rater as far as line/ounces so. The reel on it was a larger, widespool, inshore, Quantum, lined with braid.

The first two rods have performed fine but felt outclassed by the Alabama rig. The muskie rod felt awesome. It was light in my hands and actually controlled the rig. It also cast a lot better and the reel seemed to just handle the whole process more easily (I wish I knew the gear ratio).

Muskie rods are designed to throw big, heavy, wind-resistant baits, so they have the power to cast an A-rig (which isn't that big by muskie standards - we throw lots of 4-8 ounce baits). But that's only half the equation I think. Muskie rods - good ones anyhow - are still more than pool cues. They have a progressive power curve from a fast tip section to a very powerful backbone - same as a good spinnerbait rod, just with more overall power. A pool cue with no stretch line and great big hooks just means lost fish. Plus, a good muskie rod loads up on a a cast so you aren't just muscling a big bait out there with arms strength alone. Nothing's more tiring than casting a big bait on a rod that doesn't load up well.

I totally with RIK in the characteristics of the musky rod. But another thing to remember or to realize is that a St. Croix Legend Elite is the crème de la crème, the mother of all musky rods. lol I fish musky with St. Croix Premier Musky rods, MH/F which are not to be confused with the regular old St. Croix Premier rods, there is a big difference. And the 8’ premier musky is a good rod, it just could be the # 1 selling musky rod in that niche. That’s still a $200.+ rod that we put $200.+ reels on. But the Legend Elite is in another class. The Legend will always have the back bone as advertised i.e MH but the F on an Legend Elite will be much better than the F on most other rods, even St. Croixs. I have two Legend Elites for light tackle (Bass or whatever) a ML F and a M F. the M F Legend Elite is light and will toss whatever to match up with most other ML rods yet does still have the backbone of a true M. I have a M F Avid same length as the MF Legend Elite and there is a distinct difference, and the Avid is a darn nice rod. So I do agree with your assessment of wondering how that big ‘ol musky rod threw your bass baits, but you have to consider WHAT musky rod you were using. That sensation wouldn’t be the same on another make or model of a musky rod.

[vtbasser]

Thanks for touching on one of my concerns. That St. Croix aint cheap. It is definitely good though. Fenwick makes a few muskie rods that are interesting and in my price range. Do you think they would do things as well from a mechanical standpoint as the St. Croix while being heavier and less lovely to look at? Also, what do you mean by the Elite having a "better" fast?

[Snidley]

Fenwick used to make Techna Musky rods. Technas are a very good rod, equivalent to a Legend Tournament St Croix. If you seriously want to catch Bass on a Musky rod a google search might turn up a Techna for about $100. Try FFO-Tackle.com or even better call the actual store since they usually have a lot of Musky gear that is not listed on the site. Personally for me there comes a point where the fishing gear so overcomes the fish that the whole thing becomes pointless. A-rigs for Bass are that point for me. Now if they were Tuna, that would be different

[RIK]

On the 'muskie rods for bass is overkill' discussion...

If you look at it purely in terms of landing the fish, and say it's overkill, I agree 100%.

I would also say that purely in terms of landing fish, muskie rods for muskies are overkill too. I've landed hundreds of muskies - some pushing 40 pounds - on bass flipping sticks, and I can tell you with 100% certainty that the muskie hasn't been born that you can't whip on a flipping stick with 20# mono.

Muskie rods are what they are not because muskies are so big and tough. A 54" sturgeon is 100x harder to land than a 54" muskie on the same gear. They are what they are because that's what it takes to present the lures. You can land a muskie on a flipping stick, but if you put a Pounder Bull Dawg (16 oz and 22" long) on one and tried to fire a cast with any kind of authority, it'd blow up like a model car with a firecracker inside. Muskie rods are built to cast and retrieve big, heavy, wind and water resistant baits. To present the lures effectively - with all the same criteria you care about with bass gear like balance, ability to load the rod, fight the fish and do so without wearing yourself out, the same criteria applies. The dimensions differ, but the physics don't.

I think with the A-rig you're starting to push the boundaries of what's practical with traditional 'bass' tackle, and into a space where the weight, wind-resistance, etc., are getting into typical light to medium muskie rod range, and you might be more likely to find a good performing option in that space than you are looking at the heavyweight end of bass gear, other than some swimbait rods (some of which, to my point, make great muskie rods. I fish a Crucial swimbait rod for muskies a LOT).

VT - I think what wnyBob means by "better" fast is just more crisp, responsive and a little more refined power curve than the lower end models. LTM Croix muskie rods have the IPC blanks, just like the high end bass rods do, and it does make a difference in these rods too. In my original post I said something about "good" muskie rods, and this is what i was getting at. Like bass rods, not all MH - F muskie rods are created equal. I have several Fenwick Elite Tech muskie rods, and they're pretty good, if not a St Croix LTM class. The 7'9" MH might work, but it does have a lot of power. It's a heavy MH, if that makes any sense. Not quite as refined, but solid. Not sure what your price range is, but a good one to look at might be the St Croix Legend Tournament "Downsizer" - 7'3" MH - Fast, rated for 3/4 to 2 - 1/2 oz. Very nice rod...

[vtbasser]

Thanks guys. I'll definitely post up a few of my options as I do a little more research.

[mhood]

They are what they are because that's what it takes to present the lures.

And thus my agreement with the comment about "fighting tackle more than fish"...which I consider a loss for the fishing experience. Your mileage will vary obviously.

[Snidley]

Just FYI there's a guy on E Bay selling an 8' Fenwick Techna Musky rod for $135 which is a good price IF that rod's action would be right for you. He also states that there is no warranty on that particular rod so that might be a factor as well.

[wnyBob]

It's probably just me and my light-tackle roots, but I get the feeling that we've really crossed the threshold where we're fighting our tackle more than the fish we're trying to catch...

lol yeah I don't see the point either unless you're meat fishing and not sport fishing. Plus, the rig is banned in some States anyway, if I recall correctly. It reminds me of Long Lining.

[pro reel]

Regardless of what you think about the A rig, in States wher it is legal to use, you can't compete in a tourney where it's alowed without using one. This is has been shown to me without a doubt in numerous tourneys on Oklahoma lakes recently. In most of these tourneys a 16 to 18 lb stringer would have been a winning weight in past years, but this year guys with 16 to 18 lbs are not even finishing in the top 20 places. The A rig has completly changed the dynamics of tourney fishing where it's alowed.