What is going on with Daiwa

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JWR075
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What is going on with Daiwa

Post by JWR075 » Fri Mar 04, 2011 7:13 pm

I have been sitting here looking at all of the new rods that have been coming out and I think what has happened to Daiwa? Why are they not building quality (alconite or zircon guides, concept spacing split grip, either exposed reel seat or two part reel seat) (instead of full cork grips, humps in the grips, out dated reel seats and aluminum oxide guides) rods much like other companies (ABU, Bass Pro, Okuma, TFO, E21 (newer rods), Dobyns (savvy series), Duckett fishing, and W&M, just to mention a few)? Do they not understand that they could make a lot of money offering rods that compares component wise and with Daiwa’s proven blanks? Who would not like to see a Team –S or L&T blank with an ACS reel seat and either alconite K framed guides,Kigan SIC guides or even ALPS zircon guides, and a modern split grip eva handle for 100 to 125 bucks? If others can do this, it makes you wonder why Daiwa refuses to address this segment of the market.

FYI all of this was prompted by comparing my brothers Procaster (S series) rod against my Procaster (X series) rod and components on each of these rods (exposed vs. non exposed reel seat, zircon guides compared to aluminum oxide guides, and two IM7 blanks except the X series feels better and is balanced better) and trying to find him a match component wise to the X series that I have.

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Re: What is going on with Daiwa

Post by Pen3 » Fri Mar 04, 2011 8:55 pm

I just picked up a brand new Zillion 7' MH for $175 shipped and they come with Fuji SiC guides, Zaion reel seat, air foam handle and HVF blank. I don't mind them selling the Zillion at the $200 price point either.

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Jason Penn
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Re: What is going on with Daiwa

Post by Jason Penn » Sat Mar 05, 2011 12:32 am

The reason I like Daiwa so much is because of their reel seats! The ACS just ain't my thing. I have a couple of the Veritas rods with the split seat, and although I like the rods I would prefer an ECS seat more.

Doesn't the new BPS Daiwa rods have most of what you're looking for? Still not the guides you want though.
http://www.basspro.com/Team-Daiwa-Pro-Z ... 2/-1755149

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Re: What is going on with Daiwa

Post by WishinIwerFishin » Sat Mar 05, 2011 4:35 am

Daiwa reel seats are the most comfortable seats I've laid my hands on. I even saved a few old L&T reel seats for when I decide to venture in building my own or having a rod built for me. I do agree that the guides on the L&T series should be upgraded, it would make them a lot more competative with other rods in the price range.

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Re: What is going on with Daiwa

Post by JWR075 » Sat Mar 05, 2011 11:00 am

It just seems that Daiwa is missing a growing segment of the fishing market because they are still offering products that are now inferior to cheaper alternatives. A Prime example would be their Tierra series rods, which is basically the same as the Procyon, or the Procaster-A model rods (as all are IM-7 based blanks with aluminum oxide concept guides and heavy compared other companies offerings).So why not offer something better than your other three models that are basically the same. The rod that Bass Pro offers is so-so (blank looks kind of silly unless it is this http://daiwafishing.com.au/?p=4639 or this http://daiwafishing.com.au/?p=4673 ) but this rod could have been so much more with a matte blank, mount fore grip to reel seat nut, and go with either a zircon guide or alconite guides and keep the same price. Yet they offer a rod with JDM styling and the same IM-7 blank and guide system used on lower costing rods. The Ike series was close yet they still wanted to resort to the cheap parts bin for its guides, a half eva half cork grip, and silly color at a price that they already had two other series. Offer something ground breaking like ABU did with the Veritas and Verdict (Ti alloy guide frames with SIC inserts, split grip, eva handles and lightweight for a price under 150 bucks) instead of copying another line you already have and jacking up the price. I am just saying they need to start playing catch up and stop living off of their reputation, because it will only carry you so far.

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Re: What is going on with Daiwa

Post by bassbandit » Sat Mar 05, 2011 5:55 pm

JWR075 wrote:It just seems that Daiwa is missing a growing segment of the fishing market because they are still offering products that are now inferior to cheaper alternatives. A Prime example would be their Tierra series rods, which is basically the same as the Procyon, or the Procaster-A model rods (as all are IM-7 based blanks with aluminum oxide concept guides and heavy compared other companies offerings).So why not offer something better than your other three models that are basically the same. The rod that Bass Pro offers is so-so (blank looks kind of silly unless it is this http://daiwafishing.com.au/?p=4639 or this http://daiwafishing.com.au/?p=4673 ) but this rod could have been so much more with a matte blank, mount fore grip to reel seat nut, and go with either a zircon guide or alconite guides and keep the same price. Yet they offer a rod with JDM styling and the same IM-7 blank and guide system used on lower costing rods. The Ike series was close yet they still wanted to resort to the cheap parts bin for its guides, a half eva half cork grip, and silly color at a price that they already had two other series. Offer something ground breaking like ABU did with the Veritas and Verdict (Ti alloy guide frames with SIC inserts, split grip, eva handles and lightweight for a price under 150 bucks) instead of copying another line you already have and jacking up the price. I am just saying they need to start playing catch up and stop living off of their reputation, because it will only carry you so far.
Which Daiwa rods have you fished?

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Re: What is going on with Daiwa

Post by JWR075 » Sat Mar 05, 2011 7:35 pm

Right know I have a Zillion TDZL701MHFB, a Procaster X 7'6" flipping stick, a Cielo 6'6" drop shot (well at least trying to own it), and an old innerline flipping rod. I have used Daiwa stuff since I started fishing and I have liked it, but lately it seems that they are resting on their reputation instead of offering something for the everyday bass fisherman that does not have 200 buck to drop on a new rod. Yet other companies seemed to have seen the demand for a rod that has better quality components for cheaper. So the question is does Daiwa really care about this market, or are they just content to rehashing the same basic rod, and just up the price (much like they did the Aggrest reel). The market has shown people want a lighter, better equipped rod for a real good (under 150 bucks) price.

I also have 2 coastal inshore spinning rods, but the only receive limited use when I go down to the beach on vacation.

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Re: What is going on with Daiwa

Post by OUfish09 » Mon Mar 07, 2011 6:43 am

Daiwa offers the TD-S series which is priced close to $100. I have owned the 7ft. MH model from this series and in my experience it has well outperformed the similarly priced Mojo and the Kistler Magnesium concerning sensitivity, ballance, and comfort of the reel seat. This series does compete with many of the rods in its price range very well but as it has been on the market for a long period of time it does not get much attention from anglers.

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Re: What is going on with Daiwa

Post by JWR075 » Mon Mar 07, 2011 10:13 am

I have nothing against the L&T and Team-S rods, as they were good rods in their day, but I question Daiwa’s decision not to at least up grade these rods with better quality components and or blanks. A prime example is that they offer the VIP smallmouth Rod (691MFB) for a $115.00 (From Hi’s Tacklebox shop)it has a HVF blank (same blank material as Zillion and Fuego blanks), alconite guides and Fuji reel seat (may or may not be better than Daiwa’s own design) and a limited lifetime warranty, while a TD-S features a blank supported by HSD graphite and/or fiberglass, Fuji alum oxide guides, and a custom reel seat. The price difference between the two is 6 dollars. Why not offer a HVF blank with Fuji alconite concept spaced guides (or another brand like American tackle SIC guides) and the custom reel seat with a split cork grip (or EVA grips) for $100.00 to $130.00 bucks? Another example of upgrading one of their current blanks (or rod series) can be found in Daiwa Au. They took the L&T blank added SiC guides, custom reel seat, eva split grip design http://daiwafishing.com.au/?p=4685 . So the question is not can Daiwa could not offer a higher quality rod for a cheap price, it is why don’t they?

Why did they not keep the Ike series of rods, change the guides and either make a solid cork or eva split grip and rename it? It could have been a winner in the midprice range.

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Re: What is going on with Daiwa

Post by bassbandit » Mon Mar 07, 2011 11:44 am

JWR075 wrote:I have nothing against the L&T and Team-S rods, as they were good rods in their day, but I question Daiwa’s decision not to at least up grade these rods with better quality components and or blanks. A prime example is that they offer the VIP smallmouth Rod (691MFB) for a $115.00 (From Hi’s Tacklebox shop)it has a HVF blank (same blank material as Zillion and Fuego blanks), alconite guides and Fuji reel seat (may or may not be better than Daiwa’s own design) and a limited lifetime warranty, while a TD-S features a blank supported by HSD graphite and/or fiberglass, Fuji alum oxide guides, and a custom reel seat. The price difference between the two is 6 dollars. Why not offer a HVF blank with Fuji alconite concept spaced guides (or another brand like American tackle SIC guides) and the custom reel seat with a split cork grip (or EVA grips) for $100.00 to $130.00 bucks? Another example of upgrading one of their current blanks (or rod series) can be found in Daiwa Au. They took the L&T blank added SiC guides, custom reel seat, eva split grip design http://daiwafishing.com.au/?p=4685 . So the question is not can Daiwa could not offer a higher quality rod for a cheap price, it is why don’t they?

Why did they not keep the Ike series of rods, change the guides and either make a solid cork or eva split grip and rename it? It could have been a winner in the midprice range.
My guess is that the Ike rods weren't moving really well or Daiwa would have rebranded them.

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Re: What is going on with Daiwa

Post by Finnz922 » Wed Mar 09, 2011 6:52 pm

Just to throw this out there. I have the 7'2" and the 7'8" Ike rods and they are great rods for the money. I just picked up the Pro-Z rod from BPS and it feels like a good rod too. I own 5 TD-s rods and 2 L&T rods also. I can see where the question is coming from. If you went and picked up a Veritas or Duckett and compared it to any of the previously stated Daiwa's you can see the difference whether it be in weight or upgraded styling. The blanks on the Daiwa's really can't be beat at under $150 but I sure would would like to see and fish with what the AU market and Japan market get to see out of their Daiwa rods.

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Re: What is going on with Daiwa

Post by thelatrobe33 » Thu Mar 10, 2011 1:56 am

I've always had the opinion that you had to spend $200 to get a quality product from Diawa, and it appears as if that will continue. I fished L&T and TD-S rods when I first started bass fishing again, and they worked fine. My main issue was with the hoods on the reel seats. They just don't last at all. I especially had trouble with them on the L&T rods. Even the Zillion rods don't seem to be worth the dough.

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Re: What is going on with Daiwa

Post by bassbandit » Thu Mar 10, 2011 6:08 am

thelatrobe33 wrote:I've always had the opinion that you had to spend $200 to get a quality product from Diawa, and it appears as if that will continue. I fished L&T and TD-S rods when I first started bass fishing again, and they worked fine. My main issue was with the hoods on the reel seats. They just don't last at all. I especially had trouble with them on the L&T rods. Even the Zillion rods don't seem to be worth the dough.
The Tierra rods retail for $59.99 and perform very well for the money. I fished several of them for a couple of seasons and never felt like I was missing out. IMO, the rods I had fished extremely well. Enoough so, that I wouldn't have had a problem paying $100 for each rod.

Although I don't have any Zillion rods in my collection, most reports have been extremely positive. Although the posts are now gone, I seem to remember more than one member saying that the Zillion rods were so good for the price that there was no reason to pay the extra money for the Steez rods. The biggest complaint seems to be the reel seat, but I haven't seen many other complaints.

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Re: What is going on with Daiwa

Post by Jason Penn » Thu Mar 10, 2011 7:35 am

bassbandit wrote:
Although I don't have any Zillion rods in my collection, most reports have been extremely positive. Although the posts are now gone, I seem to remember more than one member saying that the Zillion rods were so good for the price that there was no reason to pay the extra money for the Steez rods. The biggest complaint seems to be the reel seat, but I haven't seen many other complaints.
I only have 1 Zillion rod (7' MH) but it didn't stop me from wanting a comp-X :D I think the Zillions are good rods, even great if you like a faster action rod.

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