Action vs. Soft Tip vs. Taper

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Action vs. Soft Tip vs. Taper

Postby ChiGGz » Sun Apr 16, 2017 2:08 am

Hi All,

I was wondering if there is a difference between Soft Tip and Action and Taper?

I understand action, its the particular point at which a rod stops bending and the blanks power takes over.

But a soft tip....does that mean it takes less effort to get to the blanks power given the same action or is this all the same thing?

Then there's taper, people use in synonymously with action, but technically its' different isn't it...?

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Re: Action vs. Soft Tip vs. Taper

Postby DirtyD64 » Sun Apr 16, 2017 2:18 am

It is all insane to me, I understand how it is SUPPOSED to be, but all manufacturers rate differently. I always understand extra fast to barely bend at the tip, but I own a few "extra fast" rods that feel more like moderate fasts.
I hear people always proclaim the need for a "soft tip" which I assume means a rod with some give, but then they also mention needing that "fast or x-fast" action with a soft tip.

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Re: Action vs. Soft Tip vs. Taper

Postby ChiGGz » Mon Apr 17, 2017 1:30 am

That's a great point. I have always been confused when people say they what a extra fast rod with a "soft tip". I always thought they were mutual, meaning the slower the tip the softer it was.

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Re: Action vs. Soft Tip vs. Taper

Postby ccass » Mon Apr 17, 2017 2:04 am

An Extra Fast rod can have either a stiff or soft tip. It depends how the rod was made. I know the quality of the rod makes a huge difference. A high-end rod usually has a better taper to it versus a less expensive rod that may use simpler manufacturing techniques. That doesn't mean that only high-end rods are capable of the taper someone may be looking for, it just means that the taper is probably more complex with the more expensive rods.

An Extra Fast rod with a soft tip would cast lighter lures better yet have the backbone to handle more pressure. The NRX852c comes to mind for me. The tip is pretty soft yet has a backbone to handle a good sized fish. The rod does not have a tip section and a backbone section. The rod has the tip and backbone sections but, it also has a smooth transition between the two and the backbone also "opens" up under sudden surges to keep the fish pinned. A simple built rod with a "tip" and "backbone" may not have the same ability. That same feature the NRX 852c has allows the rod to cast better than the typical Extra Fast rod. The 13 Fishing Archangel has the same qualities, a rod that get all the perks of the Extra Fast tip without all of the negatives.

An Extra Fast rod with a "stiff" tip could have been designed to get straight to the hookset without the rod giving too much and allowing the fish to either wrap the angler around wood or whatever. The rod could also be designed for deep water jig fishing with FC lines, where the stretch of the line could affect the long line hookset. Rods that come to mind for me with this taper are the mid-priced Abu Garcia rods. I used a 7'3" MH Vendetta for a while. That rod had some serious power for a MH. Setting the hook on a bass that is in 20ft of water was no challenge for the rod. However, the rod wasn't very helpful when I had a fish surging next to the boat. The rod didn't really want to play the fish. the tip would help a little but the rest of the rod wouldn't budge. Those same qualities were nice when I was hopping a 1.5oz jig plus trailer in 20ft of water. A more complex taper would allow me to work the same jig, in the same water and also be forgiving when the fish surges next to the boat.

All in all, manufacturers such as Abu Garcia and St Croix are a bit faster than the average rod and companies such as Phenix and Duckett have slower tapers than the average, regardless of what the rod says.
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Re: Action vs. Soft Tip vs. Taper

Postby ccass » Mon Apr 17, 2017 2:06 am

I could also go into why crankbait rods can get pretty expensive as well.
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Re: Action vs. Soft Tip vs. Taper

Postby reason162 » Mon Apr 17, 2017 2:14 am

What kind of action translates into a L bend under load? I was watching a guy fighting 1 - 3 lb fish, and his Croix Rage rod had the tip bent almost 90 degrees to the water, and almost no bend into the meat of the rod...

Whatever action that is, I want to avoid at all costs.

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Re: Action vs. Soft Tip vs. Taper

Postby ccass » Mon Apr 17, 2017 3:24 am

reason162 wrote:What kind of action translates into a L bend under load? I was watching a guy fighting 1 - 3 lb fish, and his Croix Rage rod had the tip bent almost 90 degrees to the water, and almost no bend into the meat of the rod...

Whatever action that is, I want to avoid at all costs.


That can be because of the Extra Fast tip being limber and jumps right into backbone without a good transition area and/or the angler was fighting the fish with the rod tip too high.
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Re: Action vs. Soft Tip vs. Taper

Postby reason162 » Mon Apr 17, 2017 4:01 am

ccass wrote:That can be because of the Extra Fast tip being limber and jumps right into backbone without a good transition area and/or the angler was fighting the fish with the rod tip too high.


Yeah there was zero transition, guy wasn't high sticking and not pointing the rod at the water either. It looked awful and made me felt wrong :lol:

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Re: Action vs. Soft Tip vs. Taper

Postby ccass » Mon Apr 17, 2017 4:18 am

reason162 wrote:
ccass wrote:That can be because of the Extra Fast tip being limber and jumps right into backbone without a good transition area and/or the angler was fighting the fish with the rod tip too high.


Yeah there was zero transition, guy wasn't high sticking and not pointing the rod at the water either. It looked awful and made me felt wrong :lol:


Could have been like a Medium X-Fast for T-rigs and such, being able to cast 1/4oz total weight T-Rigs and still have the backbone to control a fish in cover.
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Re: Action vs. Soft Tip vs. Taper

Postby Cal » Mon Apr 17, 2017 7:41 am

"Action" and "taper" are more or less synonymous but people often use "action" when describing a rod's power too. That situation is an improper use of the term "action".

The term "soft tip" refers two how easily the tip of the rod loads during a cast. This is factor is independent of taper as you can have a rod with most any taper with a soft or stiff tip.

There's also misuse of the term "parabolic". By definition every fishing rod bends with in a parabolic arch but there's a tendency in the industry to use the term "parabolic" to refer to a rod that has a moderate bend.
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Re: Action vs. Soft Tip vs. Taper

Postby Hogsticker2 » Mon Apr 17, 2017 9:53 am

Cal wrote:"Action" and "taper" are more or less synonymous but people often use "action" when describing a rod's power too. That situation is an improper use of the term "action".

The term "soft tip" refers two how easily the tip of the rod loads during a cast. This is factor is independent of taper as you can have a rod with most any taper with a soft or stiff tip.

There's also misuse of the term "parabolic". By definition every fishing rod bends with in a parabolic arch but there's a tendency in the industry to use the term "parabolic" to refer to a rod that has a moderate bend.

This

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Re: Action vs. Soft Tip vs. Taper

Postby ChiGGz » Mon Apr 17, 2017 12:33 pm

Great info here. This clears up a lot!

So then following all the great logic here, then a soft tip is better for cranks than a fast tip given the same action?

And a good indicator of a soft tip "should" be the lowest lure rating for a rod? Say I have an h/xh rod that can throw 3/8 oz lures.

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Re: Action vs. Soft Tip vs. Taper

Postby Cal » Mon Apr 17, 2017 1:29 pm

ChiGGz wrote:So then following all the great logic here, then a soft tip is better for cranks than a fast tip given the same action?


You're still mixing it up. A rod can have a fast tip that is soft or stiff. "Fast" is used to describe the action/taper.

You cant' tell if a rod has a soft tip or not based on the ratings. You have to feel it in person by holding the rod and bending the tip against the floor or ceiling.
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Re: Action vs. Soft Tip vs. Taper

Postby poisonokie » Mon Apr 17, 2017 11:38 pm

Once you have 12 different rods for 12 different purposes you'll get it.
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Re: Action vs. Soft Tip vs. Taper

Postby ChiGGz » Tue Apr 18, 2017 12:25 am

Cal wrote:
ChiGGz wrote:So then following all the great logic here, then a soft tip is better for cranks than a fast tip given the same action?


You're still mixing it up. A rod can have a fast tip that is soft or stiff. "Fast" is used to describe the action/taper.

You cant' tell if a rod has a soft tip or not based on the ratings. You have to feel it in person by holding the rod and bending the tip against the floor or ceiling.


I guess I'm drinking the manufacturers Kool-Aid then. With a soft/stiff tip suggesting how easy it is to load a lure on cast, I figure it would also be factored into the rod's lure rating.
IE a softer tip on a fast rod would have lower lure ratings (3/8-2oz) vs a fast rod with a stiff tip (5/8 - 2oz). Assuming all other things being equal.

But then, there's no governance on rod specs, so I guess they can put whatever they want to make a rod more marketable.

This thread has been really helpful though.


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