Eliminating Backlash on Strong Casts

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Reverendo
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Eliminating Backlash on Strong Casts

Post by Reverendo » Sat Aug 10, 2019 3:25 pm

I'm not new to baitcasters, so I'm a little befuddled with this new combo I'm breaking in (Calcutta 400 & 7'10" rod, 30# Samurai braid). I'm using this combo in South Florida's inlets for snook, etc. The bait is Live Target Mullet (1.5 oz.). I've adjusted the spool control knob and breaks according to standard. I can good casts with no backlash with moderate casts, and achieve moderate distance. The problem is when I really want to put some zip into the cast to get some extra distance. The extra zing gets me nasty backlash early on in the cast cycle. I've tried tightening the Spool control knob but with limited success. Yes it'll stop the backlash, but it also limits the casting distance. I do use my thumb to "feather" the spool, but it is not that well trained. Is there a remedy to this other than more practice?

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Re: Eliminating Backlash on Strong Casts

Post by hoohoorjoo » Sat Aug 10, 2019 4:32 pm

This is the fundamental problem with centrifugal braking, for me, at least. Wind in your face or a crosswind does unpredictable things without magnetic metering of the speed. Try loosening the cast control just a hair and making the same cast motion. You might get more casting distance with the same effort, instead of using more force to gain extra distance.
Try not to let your mind wander. It is much too small to be outside unsupervised.

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Re: Eliminating Backlash on Strong Casts

Post by Tim Kelly » Sat Aug 10, 2019 11:26 pm

I would think the 30lb Samurai is way too thin if you're trying to cast a 1.5oz bait hard. It may be bedding in on the spool when you give it the extra power in the cast. Samurai is very over rated for it's diameter compared to most other brands, Spiderwire is the same. If you want to stick to Samurai then I think at least 50lb and probably higher would help you. Trying to cast smoothly will help as snatchy casts are more likely to cause backlashes. Less spool tension, smoother casting stroke, longer drop from the rod tip and thicker braid.

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Re: Eliminating Backlash on Strong Casts

Post by Reverendo » Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:55 am

Tim Kelly wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 11:26 pm
I would think the 30lb Samurai is way too thin if you're trying to cast a 1.5oz bait hard. It may be bedding in on the spool when you give it the extra power in the cast. Samurai is very over rated for it's diameter compared to most other brands, Spiderwire is the same. If you want to stick to Samurai then I think at least 50lb and probably higher would help you. Trying to cast smoothly will help as snatchy casts are more likely to cause backlashes. Less spool tension, smoother casting stroke, longer drop from the rod tip and thicker braid.
Hey Tim. Thanks for your input. I may try a spool of 50# just to test this theory. What I cannot wrap my head around is how thin line creates an overrun? Overruns are created when the spool revolves faster than the line it is letting out, correct? So if my line is digging into itself, wouldn't that slow the spool down? A slowed down spool should in theory result in a very short cast, not a backlash. Am I overlooking something here?

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Re: Eliminating Backlash on Strong Casts

Post by mark poulson » Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:09 am

Reverendo wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:55 am
Tim Kelly wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 11:26 pm
I would think the 30lb Samurai is way too thin if you're trying to cast a 1.5oz bait hard. It may be bedding in on the spool when you give it the extra power in the cast. Samurai is very over rated for it's diameter compared to most other brands, Spiderwire is the same. If you want to stick to Samurai then I think at least 50lb and probably higher would help you. Trying to cast smoothly will help as snatchy casts are more likely to cause backlashes. Less spool tension, smoother casting stroke, longer drop from the rod tip and thicker braid.
Hey Tim. Thanks for your input. I may try a spool of 50# just to test this theory. What I cannot wrap my head around is how thin line creates an overrun? Overruns are created when the spool revolves faster than the line it is letting out, correct? So if my line is digging into itself, wouldn't that slow the spool down? A slowed down spool should in theory result in a very short cast, not a backlash. Am I overlooking something here?
For me, when braid digs into itself, it stops the spool from turning momentarily, as it tries to pull itself out of the rest of the spool. That is enough to cause a backlash, or just to cut off my cast mid-cast. I try and pull out any buried braid that might have resulted from pulling a bait out of a snag before I make my next cast. If I'm not sure it's all out, I'll turn around and make a test cast away from my target, so any hidden dig ins will be pulled out away from my primary target.
I only fish 50# and higher braid, and usually a rougher 4 braid, because I fish primarily tules and hydrilla. I do have a couple of crankbait reels with 30# braid and a 25# mono leader, and those seem to dig in more. I'm guessing, like Tim said, the thinner braid just digs in more easily. I typically rip the bait out of the grass when it snags, and that will bury the thinner braid more easily. It's annoying, but the trade off is I get longer casts, and better hooksets.

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Re: Eliminating Backlash on Strong Casts

Post by GOOD YEAR 71 » Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:19 am

Reverendo wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 3:25 pm
new combo I'm breaking in
If your braid is digging you’ll feel it and I see no problem tossing 1.5oz on 30lb. I’ve done it many times. But, the rod itself can be contributing. It happens when actual bend prior to release is too moderate. It could be obvious, such as distance casting a jigging stick. Or it could be less obvious, as some blanks and/or builds are simply not conducive to braid. First thing I’d do is strip the braid, fill some mono and go for it. You’ll find your answer quickly. The key here is line stretch, of which braid has none thereby transferring all stress to the blank. If eliminating this stress provides solution, and it might, then feel free to continue using braid but incorporate a leader long enough to rotate several rotation onto spool with bait hanging cast length. Just use whatever you were able to cast with as leader material. In doing so the spool will not notice. But, the rod WILL notice as it endures less stress due to leader stretch. Sounds crazy, I know, but there is something to it. Worth a try if nothing else. Good luck.
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Re: Eliminating Backlash on Strong Casts

Post by Aquaftm45 » Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:12 pm

I agree with many of the points brought up in the thread. Couple of questions and thoughts:
-You have a large capacity reel there in the Shimano 400, specifically what are you using as backing (if any) to the 30# Samuri? If you are using a large daimeter filler line, it could contribute to the dig in issues you might be having. I aways try to use the least amount in an equal or smaller size of backing on a big spool. This will create a solid foundation for your main spool of PE. Too large or spooled on to loose and you creat cavets in your base layer. This will cause many issues.
As mentioned, I would go to a larger size PE, minimum 2.5 PE and ideally 3 PE. Varivas Casting PE is an excellent option, if you want to splurge Varivas SMP Casting. Quality line makes a big difference. You invested pretty heavily in this set-up, no time to skimp on the line quality.
Let us know how it works out, it's a great set-up.

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Re: Eliminating Backlash on Strong Casts

Post by Reverendo » Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:47 am

I'm not sure the braid is digging into itself as the level wind seems to be doing a good job spooling that line at a proper angle. Also, I'm not seeing or feeling it digging into itself. It could be, and I will certainly look for that.

The Calcutta 400 is a Conquest version so it is not nearly as wide as the standard Calcutta 400. The backing is 50 yds. of Sufix braid, topped by 300 yds, of Daiwa Samurai. Funny Aqua, I thought Samurai was a high end braid. lol. While I may change to the Varivas, I think it best to test that theory with a larger diameter line that is more dispensable. ;)

FWIW, As I look over my original post, I think a better description of the overrun I'm experiencing is "midway" through the cast. Originally I said it occurred in the beginning, and that is not completely accurate. Not sure if this changes anything?

This morning I spent about 15 minutes experimenting and playing a little with my thumb control, using the heavy-light-heavy pressure during the casting cycle. Only one overrun, and of course it was when I really tried powering the cast again. I estimated that I was regularly casting about 30-40 yards, but will verify that distance tonight with a rangefinder. On another forum, a guy with a similar set-up said he could launch a 6 in. HUD trout about 60 yards. Man that would be nice.

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Re: Eliminating Backlash on Strong Casts

Post by GOOD YEAR 71 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:42 am

Reverendo wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:47 am
The backing is 50 yds. of Sufix braid, topped by 300 yds, of Daiwa Samurai.

FWIW, As I look over my original post, I think a better description of the overrun I'm experiencing is "midway" through the cast. Originally I said it occurred in the beginning, and that is not completely accurate. Not sure if this changes anything?
Yes, that changes everything. Midway overrun cannot be the stick. For the record, total line quantity you describe is very extreme for casting purpose. Why so much? Simple fix, way I see it, is strip about half that Samurai off the top and let it rip. And even that may not be enough. Don’t worry if it’s ‘full’ or not. It doesn’t matter.
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Re: Eliminating Backlash on Strong Casts

Post by earthworm77 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:45 pm

Here is what you do.........pull off about 20ft more line than what you expect to cast when you add a little zip to your casting motion.........then put about a 2" piece of electrical tape on the spool........wind the line back on........you should not have this issue again.

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Re: Eliminating Backlash on Strong Casts

Post by Slazmo » Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:19 pm

earthworm77 wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:45 pm
Here is what you do.........pull off about 20ft more line than what you expect to cast when you add a little zip to your casting motion.........then put about a 2" piece of electrical tape on the spool........wind the line back on........you should not have this issue again.
Genius! =D>

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Re: Eliminating Backlash on Strong Casts

Post by Sore Thumb » Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:47 pm

earthworm77 wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:45 pm
Here is what you do.........pull off about 20ft more line than what you expect to cast when you add a little zip to your casting motion.........then put about a 2" piece of electrical tape on the spool........wind the line back on........you should not have this issue again.
What happens when a fish takes some line on a run at the end of your cast, and now you have 2" of electrical tape jammed in one of your guides?

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Re: Eliminating Backlash on Strong Casts

Post by Slazmo » Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:57 pm

Wouldn't be that strong as to stop line being pulled through - more of a inconvenience...

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Re: Eliminating Backlash on Strong Casts

Post by Reverendo » Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:22 am

Well I’m fishing in the salt, where some fish can strip 150-200 yds in a blink. This is the reason for the 350 yards.

That is also the other concern about adding tape to the spool. To be honest, I’m not completely understanding how it’ll prevent the overrun. If my longest cast is 45yds., and I put tape at the 60 yd. mark on my spool, how will it be able to stop an overrun that occurs 20 yards out?

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Re: Eliminating Backlash on Strong Casts

Post by earthworm77 » Thu Aug 15, 2019 5:55 am

Sore Thumb wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:47 pm
earthworm77 wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:45 pm
Here is what you do.........pull off about 20ft more line than what you expect to cast when you add a little zip to your casting motion.........then put about a 2" piece of electrical tape on the spool........wind the line back on........you should not have this issue again.
What happens when a fish takes some line on a run at the end of your cast, and now you have 2" of electrical tape jammed in one of your guides?
I guess that anything short of the most extreme fish, which would likely dictate different tackle, it likely wouldn't be an issue. I run into overslot Reds, Snook, sharks and inshore saltwater species with my casting gear.......never an issue and these fish can pull. In the event that you do get to the tape, you can easily pull it off if you need to. It covers the whole width of the spool, once the line under it is ready to come off the spool, the tape lifts with it, making it easy to remove.

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