Yep...I tie an Alberto/improved Albright and singe the tag end, or like you, apply a little Gorilla Glue. Using 50lb Cortland Master Braid right now with only 15lb Sufix Superior, but will likely up it to 20lb test Superior (this line is breaks a little higher than the Big Game of same rating from what I can recall).
Most of my lures are going to be 3oz or less, so the 50lb braid should be fine for now...just need to up my leader test a little.
Thanks.
Swimbait line?
Re: Swimbait line?
I tried using some UV glue to set and protect the L2L knot on the Albright and it just added to the noise going through the guides.
I need a solution because I've missed three fish in a row on Hudd 8 with the stock jig hook on 25# Tritanium and 25# Tatsu so I need to find lower stretch non braid or become accustomed to the knot going through the guides. That or refine my loading the rod before striking to make it work.
Has me so pissed. Two of them felt like sizable fish. I know this because the one I saw was a 4 pounder and I hardly new it was on. Was using the 867 which appears to have a stiffer tip than the 806 but may need more loading to set the big jig hook properly or perhaps I just suck at setting the hook with this thick hook. Not that I'm new to big hooks but I've always used much thicker mono/copolymer with that thick a hook. The thicker the line the less stretch for same amount of pull. May have to do the BB/Chris Fish rig which I was hoping to avoid because I want to keep it simple and a single hook. Could always stick two trebles into the bait, I guess.
Oddly, I tied some leftover 25# Tatsu onto my reel with a Uni 2 Uni to connect it to the 25# Tritanium and on a long cast when the knot went through the line guide as well as the rod guides I didn't really hear it. Seems like the most noise is when the knot is a short distance away and perhaps because of the initial inertia created by the cast. The only annoying issue was the amount of momentum created and the stress on my thumb trying to slow the spool at the end. Got to a point I just waited for it to hit the water before thumbs on and that worked quite well with just minor spool run off and having to fix a few feet of loose strands. Still not something I want to keep doing.
My search for lower stretch anything non braid continues and till then I'll just have to deal with the annoying knot slap against the rod guides or perhaps experiment with a longer leader bit shorter than would affect me on a long cast to potentially reduce that noise and avoid having my thumb get stripped raw from an afternoon of chucking Hudds.
I need a solution because I've missed three fish in a row on Hudd 8 with the stock jig hook on 25# Tritanium and 25# Tatsu so I need to find lower stretch non braid or become accustomed to the knot going through the guides. That or refine my loading the rod before striking to make it work.
Has me so pissed. Two of them felt like sizable fish. I know this because the one I saw was a 4 pounder and I hardly new it was on. Was using the 867 which appears to have a stiffer tip than the 806 but may need more loading to set the big jig hook properly or perhaps I just suck at setting the hook with this thick hook. Not that I'm new to big hooks but I've always used much thicker mono/copolymer with that thick a hook. The thicker the line the less stretch for same amount of pull. May have to do the BB/Chris Fish rig which I was hoping to avoid because I want to keep it simple and a single hook. Could always stick two trebles into the bait, I guess.
Oddly, I tied some leftover 25# Tatsu onto my reel with a Uni 2 Uni to connect it to the 25# Tritanium and on a long cast when the knot went through the line guide as well as the rod guides I didn't really hear it. Seems like the most noise is when the knot is a short distance away and perhaps because of the initial inertia created by the cast. The only annoying issue was the amount of momentum created and the stress on my thumb trying to slow the spool at the end. Got to a point I just waited for it to hit the water before thumbs on and that worked quite well with just minor spool run off and having to fix a few feet of loose strands. Still not something I want to keep doing.
My search for lower stretch anything non braid continues and till then I'll just have to deal with the annoying knot slap against the rod guides or perhaps experiment with a longer leader bit shorter than would affect me on a long cast to potentially reduce that noise and avoid having my thumb get stripped raw from an afternoon of chucking Hudds.
Re: Swimbait line?
GARRIGA - if you choose to not use braid, then I suggest modifying the hook set up on your rig...it will otherwise be difficult on a long cast to get a big single hook to penetrate when using any type of line with stretch...IMO.
Good luck.
Good luck.
Re: Swimbait line?
That is my biggest concern. A long cast but I lost a fish that was pitch away on Sunday with the Tatsu.dragon1 wrote:GARRIGA - if you choose to not use braid, then I suggest modifying the hook set up on your rig...it will otherwise be difficult on a long cast to get a big single hook to penetrate when using any type of line with stretch...IMO.
Good luck.
I'm going to try straight 80# braid and see if I get bit if I can't get the L2L to work. Ive caught lots of bass in clear water with 65# and may also use the black magic marker trick to see if it helps. Really want to use the Jig Hook for its simplicity and how I carry my gear when walking the shore. Worse case I go to 50# braid and live with the occasional separation due to dig ins. Cheaper than a boat payment.
Re: Swimbait line?
GARRIGA, you may want to run a modified treble on the back of your lures....better hookup setup while still not so snaggy as running a bottom treble setup.
Good luck man.
Good luck man.
Re: Swimbait line?
I'm going to be carrying the Hudds in a surf casting plug bag and trying to avoid dealing with trebles at night.dragon1 wrote:GARRIGA, you may want to run a modified treble on the back of your lures....better hookup setup while still not so snaggy as running a bottom treble setup.
Good luck man.
I'm seriously considering hollow core braid and then splicing a Fluoro wind-on from Basil. Might as well use my salt water experience to chase trophy bass plus it would be easy to switch over to snook with the same rig and just add heavier Fluoro. Just need to try it and find a way to make it work. Can also carry mono wind-on for floating the DeadTwitch.
The nice thing about hollow core is its resistence to digging in. I'm told. Have no experience but guys are landing large tuna on Stella's with this setup so I can't see it being an issue with bass. They are chucking larger poppers on 60# JB. Although, spinners are much different than BC on the cast as to braid issues.
Unfortunately sometimes the only way is to try and fail or succeed. The hollow core to hollow core splice is the best L2L connection there is for low profile and strength. The two lines basically become one and I've always known Basil makes some of the best connections around.
Re: Swimbait line?
Right on...I have zero experience with hollow core, but imagine that if it works for SW, then swimbaits for green fish should be more than doable.
Re: Swimbait line?
I tried some 30# Tritanium Albright to braid with an 18ft top shot and I didn't hear it going through the rod guides but did through the line guide. Need to make the hollow core work.
Another member here is doing that and mentioned it to me. I had dismissed it because I was planning on connecting via loops with a cats paw but that may not work well with our heavy grass. The line splice makes the most sense.
If I had the patience than I'd just serve my own connections straight mono/Fluoro to the hollow core but it's easier to buy premade and simple enough to splice. I'm pretty sure that will work. We're talking bass. Just need to figure what's the lightest hollow core that resists enough on diggin to avoid snapping off big baits. Something I just have zero experience with. Perhaps others that toss big poppers can chime in and educate us. Learning is fun.
Another member here is doing that and mentioned it to me. I had dismissed it because I was planning on connecting via loops with a cats paw but that may not work well with our heavy grass. The line splice makes the most sense.
If I had the patience than I'd just serve my own connections straight mono/Fluoro to the hollow core but it's easier to buy premade and simple enough to splice. I'm pretty sure that will work. We're talking bass. Just need to figure what's the lightest hollow core that resists enough on diggin to avoid snapping off big baits. Something I just have zero experience with. Perhaps others that toss big poppers can chime in and educate us. Learning is fun.
Re: Swimbait line?
Hey Garriga,
Don't care what anyone says those top jig hooks really suck! First they take multiple hook sets to penetrate the jaw, if your lucky! Then you have to keep the rod tip just about buried in the water to keep the fish from tail walking and throwing the hook. Bad JU JU no matter how you look at it. I always snip them off and either put a Gammy needle point treble on top with crimped 25-30# leaders or tie them on with 65-80# braid (usually braid). I never lose a fish this way. If I'm unsure where the fish may take the hook, then I'll also put a large frog hook on the bottom hanger and secure it with a small section of a paper clip or coat hanger so it won't hang down and be a potential snag issue. I never use a stinger anymore, too many swallowed hooks or hooks caught in the gills resulting in the death of the fish; god I hate that with a passion if it's preventable.
Regarding the leader and line issue. Not too tough if you think of it like a saltwater problem. If your determined to use your shorter leader and the knot is an issue then try an FG knot and use heavier flouro leader so you don't have to change it as often due to the abrasion and the like, remember, they can't see it and the knot is like the chinese finger torture where the more tension you apply the tighter it gets; well the same concept works with this knot as well if you're unfamiliar with it! The other choice is to use a longer top shot, say around 25-30 yds. flour leader or as long as you expect to cast and make sure the knots still on the spool after the cast; guess what no noise! and it won't be an issue unless you hook a runner. I learned that fishing SW in Florida and swear by it now. It really works well though a tad more expensive with longer leaders but it's worth it in my book. I also will go to as much as 40# flouro leader if I need to if structure is an issue and I'm getting break offs with 25-30#. Some of this advice as a matter of fact is advice you offered me when I told you I was going fishing in Florida a couple years ago and was concerned about the various line riggings I could use for Redfish, Spec's, Jacks and the odd puppy Tarpon and the like ... brought the advice home with me and it helped me big time with swimbait issues I had had before I left, lol. Imagine that, hehehe! Just made some adjustments in the application with freshwater bass ...
Well my typing must be waking up the coyotes, I hear them yodeling outside the window so it must be time for bed, lol. I really hope I've helped you buddy! If there's anything else I can do just give a holler.
Tim
Don't care what anyone says those top jig hooks really suck! First they take multiple hook sets to penetrate the jaw, if your lucky! Then you have to keep the rod tip just about buried in the water to keep the fish from tail walking and throwing the hook. Bad JU JU no matter how you look at it. I always snip them off and either put a Gammy needle point treble on top with crimped 25-30# leaders or tie them on with 65-80# braid (usually braid). I never lose a fish this way. If I'm unsure where the fish may take the hook, then I'll also put a large frog hook on the bottom hanger and secure it with a small section of a paper clip or coat hanger so it won't hang down and be a potential snag issue. I never use a stinger anymore, too many swallowed hooks or hooks caught in the gills resulting in the death of the fish; god I hate that with a passion if it's preventable.
Regarding the leader and line issue. Not too tough if you think of it like a saltwater problem. If your determined to use your shorter leader and the knot is an issue then try an FG knot and use heavier flouro leader so you don't have to change it as often due to the abrasion and the like, remember, they can't see it and the knot is like the chinese finger torture where the more tension you apply the tighter it gets; well the same concept works with this knot as well if you're unfamiliar with it! The other choice is to use a longer top shot, say around 25-30 yds. flour leader or as long as you expect to cast and make sure the knots still on the spool after the cast; guess what no noise! and it won't be an issue unless you hook a runner. I learned that fishing SW in Florida and swear by it now. It really works well though a tad more expensive with longer leaders but it's worth it in my book. I also will go to as much as 40# flouro leader if I need to if structure is an issue and I'm getting break offs with 25-30#. Some of this advice as a matter of fact is advice you offered me when I told you I was going fishing in Florida a couple years ago and was concerned about the various line riggings I could use for Redfish, Spec's, Jacks and the odd puppy Tarpon and the like ... brought the advice home with me and it helped me big time with swimbait issues I had had before I left, lol. Imagine that, hehehe! Just made some adjustments in the application with freshwater bass ...
Well my typing must be waking up the coyotes, I hear them yodeling outside the window so it must be time for bed, lol. I really hope I've helped you buddy! If there's anything else I can do just give a holler.
Tim
Re: Swimbait line?
Tim,
You and Dragon are both right on issues with setting a thick J hook. I guess I'm being stubborn because of how I plan to carry the baits. If I can't make it work with braid than I'll have to concede and follow the good advise.
I tried the long Fluoro but put just a little less than casting distance. That 867 can really launch a Hudd and specially the ROF 16. If I had added 10 more yards I would have been good to go but it was remminents from a filler spool.
Several have recommended the FG knot but it looks complicated and not something I'd like to practice on the filed at night. Same issue with serving a connection. I've caught groupers/snappers with single thick 8/0 style J hooks like on the Hudd bit never with less than 40# mono. Just too much stretch in 30 or less or perhaps it's the way those hit that hook themselves. Again, the BB style may be my only choice.
I'm surprised you mentioned 40# Fluoro because I'm of the same opinion that it would work and what I normally run when used as a short leader versus a top shot. Never considered using fluoro leader as a top shot for bass and i think thats what youmwere referring to. Was rediculous on another forum for so much as mentioning it. Apparently big baits for bass is unique and such thick leaders don't have their place. I've also been told surf casting and big bait bass throwing are not the same. I tend to think they are and been trying to incorporate that experience into this new endevour.
I've actually contemplated going with 60 premier because I have areas where big bass and snook travel. Might as well be ready for both and the thicker the line the more force needed to make it stretch. Food for thought. I'll give the hollow core a try and if that fails than top trebles I'll go. Lots of nice bass in Florida so I have material to work with as I iron out my failures to hopefully advance what I do.
BTW, why not swivels like Mike Long versus cable, braid or mono? Wouldn't that work as well and have the added benefit of freer movement post hook set? I have one rigged like that. If I can find where I put it I might try it out and see if I can find a way to live with trebles. Hate those darn things.
You and Dragon are both right on issues with setting a thick J hook. I guess I'm being stubborn because of how I plan to carry the baits. If I can't make it work with braid than I'll have to concede and follow the good advise.
I tried the long Fluoro but put just a little less than casting distance. That 867 can really launch a Hudd and specially the ROF 16. If I had added 10 more yards I would have been good to go but it was remminents from a filler spool.
Several have recommended the FG knot but it looks complicated and not something I'd like to practice on the filed at night. Same issue with serving a connection. I've caught groupers/snappers with single thick 8/0 style J hooks like on the Hudd bit never with less than 40# mono. Just too much stretch in 30 or less or perhaps it's the way those hit that hook themselves. Again, the BB style may be my only choice.
I'm surprised you mentioned 40# Fluoro because I'm of the same opinion that it would work and what I normally run when used as a short leader versus a top shot. Never considered using fluoro leader as a top shot for bass and i think thats what youmwere referring to. Was rediculous on another forum for so much as mentioning it. Apparently big baits for bass is unique and such thick leaders don't have their place. I've also been told surf casting and big bait bass throwing are not the same. I tend to think they are and been trying to incorporate that experience into this new endevour.
I've actually contemplated going with 60 premier because I have areas where big bass and snook travel. Might as well be ready for both and the thicker the line the more force needed to make it stretch. Food for thought. I'll give the hollow core a try and if that fails than top trebles I'll go. Lots of nice bass in Florida so I have material to work with as I iron out my failures to hopefully advance what I do.
BTW, why not swivels like Mike Long versus cable, braid or mono? Wouldn't that work as well and have the added benefit of freer movement post hook set? I have one rigged like that. If I can find where I put it I might try it out and see if I can find a way to live with trebles. Hate those darn things.
Re: Swimbait line?
Hope this feedback helps some Alex!GARRIGA wrote:Tim,
You and Dragon are both right on issues with setting a thick J hook. I guess I'm being stubborn because of how I plan to carry the baits. If I can't make it work with braid than I'll have to concede and follow the good advise.
If you do then plz sharpen that sucker to a killer point! Use a ceramic sharpener rather than a file or a ceramic after a file so you can finish the hooks edge scary sharp. (Lansky sells a ceramic dog-bone style hand sharpener that's perfect for this type of sharpening and I wouldn't go anywhere without it.) The NIB point simply isn't sharp enough to get through that cartilage in the roof of a basses mouth from my experience.
I tried the long Fluoro but put just a little less than casting distance. That 867 can really launch a Hudd and specially the ROF 16. If I had added 10 more yards I would have been good to go but it was remminents from a filler spool.
Several have recommended the FG knot but it looks complicated and not something I'd like to practice on the filed at night. Same issue with serving a connection. I've caught groupers/snappers with single thick 8/0 style J hooks like on the Hudd bit never with less than 40# mono. Just too much stretch in 30 or less or perhaps it's the way those hit that hook themselves. Again, the BB style may be my only choice.
The FG knot isn't a knot to use in the dark because of it's complexity. If and when I use it, I will tie it in advance at home. The easiest way to do the bulk of the knot is with a fly tying vise (or any vise for that matter) holding the flouro strand and using both hands to make the alternating wraps. Still takes some time but it's worth it for a very quiet knot on a short leader.
I'm surprised you mentioned 40# Fluoro because I'm of the same opinion that it would work and what I normally run when used as a short leader versus a top shot. Never considered using fluoro leader as a top shot for bass and i think thats what youmwere referring to. Was rediculous on another forum for so much as mentioning it. Apparently big baits for bass is unique and such thick leaders don't have their place. I've also been told surf casting and big bait bass throwing are not the same. I tend to think they are and been trying to incorporate that experience into this new endevour.
Absolutely, the flouro topshot is the best way to go! Mono simply stretches too much with a large bait, large fish, then the force of the hook set; not a formula for an effective hook up.
I've actually contemplated going with 60 premier because I have areas where big bass and snook travel. Might as well be ready for both and the thicker the line the more force needed to make it stretch. Food for thought. I'll give the hollow core a try and if that fails than top trebles I'll go. Lots of nice bass in Florida so I have material to work with as I iron out my failures to hopefully advance what I do.
Great idea since the flouro is invisible anyway, just make sure you use a good loop knot on your bait or forget about any decent action with your Hudd with that heavy line. Also, if you're in BIG snook country you may want to consider putting some very small diameter clear plastic tubing on the line for some bite damage control from those toothy critters or be prepared to re-tie frequently.
BTW, why not swivels like Mike Long versus cable, braid or mono? Wouldn't that work as well and have the added benefit of freer movement post hook set? I have one rigged like that. If I can find where I put it I might try it out and see if I can find a way to live with trebles. Hate those darn things.
I've used the swivel method Mike uses and it simply looks too high profile and mechanical.I don't want anything that doesn't look natural and out of place on the bait and risking spooking an already spooky trophy fish. They didn't get big being stupid. However, considering Mike's track record, there must be something to it since he's obviously caught some impressive fish using that method. I just don't have any confidence in it.
Also, don't be afraid to modify a treble so that it IS something you can feel comfortable with. You can always snip off one of the hooks then straighten the other in-line with each other vertically. Snip the bottom hooks barb off and bend it to anchor it in the top of the baits heads. Then secure it to the line tie on the bait and you now have a far more effective jig hook arrangement on the bait that comes free on the head throw. Not only that but you also now have a replaceable hook if needed rather than trying to sharpen the existing in place jig hook that may not take more than 1-2 GOOD sharpenings.
Tim
Re: Swimbait line?
Have you tried clipping the jig hook and replacing it with a small treble up top? Both Mat Allen and Butch Brown have videos of their variation of that setup online.GARRIGA wrote:I tried using some UV glue to set and protect the L2L knot on the Albright and it just added to the noise going through the guides.
I need a solution because I've missed three fish in a row on Hudd 8 with the stock jig hook on 25# Tritanium and 25# Tatsu so I need to find lower stretch non braid or become accustomed to the knot going through the guides. That or refine my loading the rod before striking to make it work.
Has me so pissed. Two of them felt like sizable fish. I know this because the one I saw was a 4 pounder and I hardly new it was on. Was using the 867 which appears to have a stiffer tip than the 806 but may need more loading to set the big jig hook properly or perhaps I just suck at setting the hook with this thick hook. Not that I'm new to big hooks but I've always used much thicker mono/copolymer with that thick a hook. The thicker the line the less stretch for same amount of pull. May have to do the BB/Chris Fish rig which I was hoping to avoid because I want to keep it simple and a single hook. Could always stick two trebles into the bait, I guess.
Oddly, I tied some leftover 25# Tatsu onto my reel with a Uni 2 Uni to connect it to the 25# Tritanium and on a long cast when the knot went through the line guide as well as the rod guides I didn't really hear it. Seems like the most noise is when the knot is a short distance away and perhaps because of the initial inertia created by the cast. The only annoying issue was the amount of momentum created and the stress on my thumb trying to slow the spool at the end. Got to a point I just waited for it to hit the water before thumbs on and that worked quite well with just minor spool run off and having to fix a few feet of loose strands. Still not something I want to keep doing.
My search for lower stretch anything non braid continues and till then I'll just have to deal with the annoying knot slap against the rod guides or perhaps experiment with a longer leader bit shorter than would affect me on a long cast to potentially reduce that noise and avoid having my thumb get stripped raw from an afternoon of chucking Hudds.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4ZXDXzuGl4 (actually not the link I was looking for. I remember TacticalBassin having a video where they clip the hook and attach a single treble up top to the line tie with braid and a double uni)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=453ZUor4jI0
Re: Swimbait line?
Yes, I'm aware of the BB rig but I have other concerns like carrying and handling those treble lures at night while walking the bank. As Tim stated, the hook is not sharp which gets compounded by any stretch. The BB rig will be my last resort as I workout refining my braid/fluoro setup. Perhaps in the future Ken will enploy an Owner or Gami super sharp thinner hook. I'd pay the premium to get a better setup.
Re: Swimbait line?
I like the idea of running a snap at the end of the BB rig...that way you can add or remove the back treble will less fuss. Just keep the trebles in a small tackle box until you get to your spot.
Should be easy enough?
Should be easy enough?
Re: Swimbait line?
I've actually considered that with not just what I carry but also storage of big baits. All that's needed is a set of Texas Tackle Split Ring pliers plus extra HyperWire Split rings. Take the hooks off and you potentially carry more plugs and soft baits in a typical surf plug bag. Those who enjoy the simple pleasures of walking the bank with one rod may want to look into bags from Commando and Mac as a convenient option plus wade belts and accessories to carry all their gear and then some.dragon1 wrote:I like the idea of running a snap at the end of the BB rig...that way you can add or remove the back treble will less fuss. Just keep the trebles in a small tackle box until you get to your spot.
Should be easy enough?
I found the Hudd I had rigged Mike Long style and going to try that out. Also looking into Streamline wind-one's that appear to have a shorter serve than the typical Basil setup and may be easier to cast with. Instead of running hollow core mainline I may stick with my preferred solid and then do an Alberto to the braid loop on the wind-on. Some also do a short trace of hollow on the solid braid so than can later splice the wind-on for a more secure connection. Should be an ultra small knot with little issues going thought the level wind guide or rod guides. Just need to experiment and find what works best for my application. It's only theory until you apply it.
Some reading this may think this is over kill for bass but I plan on using the same rigs and baits to chase snook and tarpon from bridges, docks and even the inlet jetties. That reminds me to get a good pair of korkers. Them rocks could be slippery under the moonlight.