New Worm Gear Material

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hoohoorjoo
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Re: New Worm Gear Material

Post by hoohoorjoo » Wed Apr 08, 2020 4:03 pm

Bantam1 wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 5:20 am
It is a polymer based material with some reinforcing properties. They are fine and we see virtually zero issues. The only damage we have seen is from stuff like sand which wrecks aluminum, brass and other materials as well.

There are many reasons we went to it. One is consistency. There are variations with machined worm shafts. This means they must be adjusted at the factory for proper line lay on the spool. There is only so much you can do adjusting them. We have seen some being slightly off causing the line to stack to one side of the spool. This causes balance issues when casting. With the molded shaft they are all the same.

The other was durability in saltwater markets. Plastic/Nylon/POM simply does not corrode.

The QC team did a lot of testing. I will not give you the number of cycles, but it lasted longer than the other materials we used. Shockingly higher numbers.

The Tranx 400 started with an aluminum worm shaft that was anodized black. We changed back to chrome plated brass for the saltwater markets to eliminate corrosion issues. I wanted them to go with plastic personally. That is based on what I have seen with Curado K and 70 models having no problems.

I went over this a while back and the naysayers continue to say we only did it for the money. I can assure you that isn't the case. Nobody wants to factor in the cost of molds, development or testing involved. That all costs money. The discussions about the change started in 2014 and I was involved in those meetings with the engineers. I brought up many scenarios and cautions based on my years here. They shared the data with me and the reels went through extensive testing.

We see no issues in the temperatures the reels are used in. The material we used is safe across broad temperatures outside of temps way too hot for humans to endure, and reels left inside hot cars with temperatures exceeding 170 degrees. If temps were an issue you would see problems with side plates and other parts failing. Funny how nobody sees issues there but a worm shaft is the end of the world :roll: Polymers are the future in case nobody has noticed. There are more and more things being made with polymers. If a pistol of rifle can hold up to the pressures and forces of recoil, and handle huge temperature swings, I'm sure our little worm shaft will do just fine.
I meant nothing by my earlier response, Dan. I trust Shimano enough to know you guys wouldn't knowingly go to an inferior material in a critical location/application. Up-front costs not withstanding, I do believe it would be a cost savings in the long run. But as I said, it would bite you guys in your collective shorts if the worm gears ended with repeated failures, so I dont doubt your R&D did their due diligence before settling on that specific material. I'm a maintenance mechanic, and I've seen uncommon materials used with great success in certain applications.
Try not to let your mind wander. It is much too small to be outside unsupervised.

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Re: New Worm Gear Material

Post by Zimbass » Wed Apr 08, 2020 8:41 pm

We have a new found know it all on our forum. In a short 13 posts he has become an expert in the field of reel manufacturing, and in poor written English, attacked one of the leaders,Bantam 1.

May I suggest that Dan adds the genius to his " Ignore this man " list, and continue serving the appreciative public at large, as he has done for so many years.

Dan we appreciate your valuable contribution. Ignore the self centered expert.

Best,

Terry.

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Re: New Worm Gear Material

Post by LgMouthGambler » Thu Apr 09, 2020 11:28 am

Ive been on this debate when I first ran across this "plastic" in the worm gear and pawl. Was I happy about it? No. Did I see the same things that the poster is seeing in Shimano products as of lately, yes. I was told it was ceramic by someone else (not Bantam), who was a "know it all" and worked in a Shimano repair facility. He even went as far as messaging someone he knew to get a response on the material..."ceramic pawl" is what it was. So, I basically told him to do what "I" did, and take a sharp edge to it, because when I did, it cut like "plastic". But, that wasnt good enough for him, because I was just a "kitchen table tech" I think is what he called me. :lol: Anyways, it was proven that it was a "plastic" in the end. So continued the discussion...

But I hear ya ska4fun, its a little upsetting when you have Doyo reels that have aluminum gearing in them, and they dont have the issues that the Shimanos have, and the thumb bar issues as well. Hopefully, Shimano will realize the mistakes in their trials and fix them... If you notice, the new Metaniums have brass gears back in them... =D>
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Re: New Worm Gear Material

Post by LgMouthGambler » Thu Apr 09, 2020 1:03 pm

LgMouthGambler wrote:
Thu Apr 09, 2020 11:28 am
Ive been on this debate when I first ran across this "plastic" in the worm gear and pawl. Was I happy about it? No. Did I see the same things that the poster is seeing in Shimano products as of lately, yes. I was told it was ceramic by someone else (not Bantam), who was a "know it all" and worked in a Shimano repair facility. He even went as far as messaging someone he knew to get a response on the material..."ceramic pawl" is what it was. So, I basically told him to do what "I" did, and take a sharp edge to it, because when I did, it cut like "plastic". But, that wasnt good enough for him, because I was just a "kitchen table tech" I think is what he called me. :lol: Anyways, it was proven that it was a "plastic" in the end. So continued the discussion...

But I hear ya ska4fun, its a little upsetting when you have Doyo reels that have aluminum gearing in them, and they dont have the issues that the Shimanos have, and the thumb bar issues as well. Hopefully, Shimano will realize the mistakes in their trials and fix them... If you notice, the new Metaniums have brass gears back in them... =D>
[/quote]
I'm astonished over how much you were able to understand my disappointment over this matter. Here on Brazil, people called it special polymer and even worst, ''fiber alloy'', killing basic middle-school chemistry knowledge. When I posted my first reply, there was a mention over ''how doyo can do it and shimano not'', but I deleted it to avoid being accused of merchandising. There is something really wrong on shimano's duraluminium alloy... I really doubt that a company who didn't identified the duraluminium gear issue before, or chose to keep with it until users started complaining, will change any policy over product quality. The thumb bar issue itself is just ridiculous, astonishing ridiculous... Just cheap glue, with low resistance to hydrolysis. How this well-known issue wasn't identified by the ''extensive testing'' mentioned by the resident shimano's guy? Maybe the cutting-cost policy, ignoring quality decrease, is hierarchically above the extensive testing? I saw the new metanium brass gearing, and the brass gearing kits to fix it before them.
[/quote]

"Fix whats not broken" stuff happens on many different occasions. I see it in cars too (my profession). So the micro module gears thing was a solution to a problem that doesnt exist IMO. The smoothest Shimano reels EVER made were the Bantam Curados, and they didnt have all this fancy new tech, and are still around to this day. Many of the ones I know have been beat to hell, and are still going strong today. Brass gears that arent micro, worm gears and pawls that are metal, and simple build quality. For one thing, I can say that Shimanos internals are still pretty simple. A mod to the way the idle gear works on the crankshaft with the way that it cant break with force as it will "ratchet" on the crankshaft. Otherwise, most of the internals have been the same "style" for a looooong time. Im in no way a "fanboy" of any reel company, I just have certain models that I like. Ive taken damn near every reel apart, so I get to see what makes them tick, or fail....I have seen more failures in newer Shimano reels, than I have out of the many Doyo platforms that I service.
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Re: New Worm Gear Material

Post by Slazmo » Fri Apr 10, 2020 4:44 pm

ska4fun wrote:
Thu Apr 09, 2020 2:40 pm
Three times people told me I was complaining because I ''lacked funds'' to use shimano products... But the bullshit only lasted until I posted a picture of all my reels.
Like that?
Last edited by Slazmo on Sat Apr 11, 2020 5:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: New Worm Gear Material

Post by Slazmo » Sat Apr 11, 2020 1:33 am

Keep it... You never know when you'll return, and better have what you know than buy what you don't.

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Re: New Worm Gear Material

Post by brownhl » Sun Apr 12, 2020 8:56 am

All I know is that I am a user and I fish the hell out of the reels with the new worm gear materials and have had zero problems and only very smooth reel functions. Frankly, I love the new worm gears. \:D/

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