Shimano Quality difference between USA/Japan

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Re: Shimano Quality difference between USA/Japan

Postby dragon1 » Tue Jul 03, 2007 7:45 am

Off topic,

But Daiwa won't be in trouble...heck, Shimano already traded the $120-$150 mid-market that the Curado B left to Daiwa's new line-up, and that doesn't even include their spinning line-up.

Remember, the HLC has yet to come and these two Giants have always made it a habit to have comparable/competitive offerings with one another. It appears that both are beginning to commit more of their once JDM gear to the US market more. Also, with the dissapearance of the Alphas/Sol?...will something else replace it?

The Met MG7 is a very good reel, but it IMO is still not as solid as the TDZ that was introduced nearly a decade ago. Stronger drag, better casting (long distance, pitching is close), higher gear ratio avail...but overall not any more solid, and definitely not more solid in the side plate cover access to the SVS system vs Daiwa's or in the "sometimes noticeable by some and not by others" handle backplay.

If nothing else, this just gives the Monkey another reason to take a shot of expresso and warm up his Credit Card again.

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Re: Shimano Quality difference between USA/Japan

Postby GamblerHydra » Tue Jul 03, 2007 7:59 am

mhood wrote:
I didn't think this particular discussion was a Shimano vrs. Daiwa thing. I felt it was more of an SIC vrs. SAC thing. And yes, I can see where Bantum has said a lot of things with 100% certainty... ;)
I was surpised msyelf. It is kind of like taking a giant whiz on bantum. Reread some of Games first comments around Daiwa/Steez and what they brought to the US.

This thread really makes no sense. The quality of the reels in SIC vs. SAC are the same. Using quality is a poor choice of words and sends the wrong message. If you want to argue features then I can grasp that, but quality ???

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Re: Shimano Quality difference between USA/Japan

Postby mhood » Tue Jul 03, 2007 8:18 am

GamblerHydra wrote:Reread some of Games first comments


No thanks... :lol:

GamblerHydra wrote:Using quality is a poor choice of words and sends the wrong message.


What is a better word? Sophistication, refinement, what???
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Bantam1
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Re: Shimano Quality difference between USA/Japan

Postby Bantam1 » Tue Jul 03, 2007 8:26 am

OK here we go again...

First off all the comments about Fish Chris. I know him and he is a nice guy so no more crap about him. He is not a Shimano guy and he strictly targets trophy fish of all species. Leave him out of future posts please as he is not here to defend himself.

Some of the features you guys want are not here due to patent issues (4x4 breaking) and it does add weight to our reels. I do not associate features with quality. Quality is in the finish, mechanics and performance, not with a clicking drag star or cast control cap.

I am here to help you guys with Shimano related questions. I do not see it as I am getting pissed on as someone else stated. The SIC vs. SAC products is not helping anyone, in fact it is just causing arguments. We do not sell the SIC(JDM) products here and we never will. The increase in cost that some of you are willing to pay for the added features is great. Will the rest of the average people want that? Probably not. I am not in sales and I do not crunch numbers or do market analysis reports so I am limited in knowledge when it comes to these types of things. I am a product guy with a vast technical knowledge. I come from the automotive world and most of my tech skills/knowledge have come from there. So when I say I know something about our reels trust me I do. I wouldn't be in the posistion I am in if I didn't know what I was talking about.

So I will no longer reply to this thread because it is going down a road that I can no longer be on. Think what you want but you need to see it from my perspective. I am not here to do this. I am here to provide support. Arguments and the "you don't know what you are talking about" type posts are a waste of my time and everyone elses. So keep the enthusiast threads in the proper forum from here on out. Its only going to end up being an argument and I am not here to argue.

I respectfully bow out :)

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Re: Shimano Quality difference between USA/Japan

Postby GamblerHydra » Tue Jul 03, 2007 9:12 am

mhood wrote:
GamblerHydra wrote:Reread some of Games first comments


No thanks... :lol:

GamblerHydra wrote:Using quality is a poor choice of words and sends the wrong message.


What is a better word? Sophistication, refinement, what???


:lol: :big grin: Yes, I would agree to those terms being used . It seems to a better choices in describing a further developed reel in manners of complexity.



Who is Fish Chris ??? :-({|= :lol22:

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Re: Shimano Quality difference between USA/Japan

Postby Johnny A » Tue Jul 03, 2007 1:15 pm

1 quick note ... quality is not a consideration here. Not because I don't care about it but because at this level, I'm pretty well assured whichever reel I pull from the box, Shimano or Daiwa is going to be a reliable piece of equipment.

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Re: Shimano Quality difference between USA/Japan

Postby Bantam1 » Tue Jul 03, 2007 2:42 pm

Lefty owners-

I just counted our low profile and round reel sku's for left handed model reels. We offer 26 different reel models in left hand versions. Currently we offer more left hand model reels than anyone else on the market.

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Re: Shimano Quality difference between USA/Japan

Postby greatbarracuda » Tue Jul 03, 2007 2:45 pm

I'd trade 25 of those (save the lefty chronarch b) for a calais 101b :P .

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Re: Shimano Quality difference between USA/Japan

Postby Bantam1 » Tue Jul 03, 2007 4:12 pm

If you can find a Calais 100B then my hat is off to you. I have not seen a Calais B model yet ;)

The left hand model reels are directly related to right hand models. We use the sales of the right hand models to offset the cost of tooling to make the left hand version. If we do not see the sales on the right hand model reels then we will not make the left hand model.

The left hand models might be available in Japan. These models are not brought here as a result of sales numbers. If we only sell a few models of the right hand version, then we only expect to see maybe 25% of that number in the left hand version. for example if we sell 100 pieces of the right hand model then we will only sell 25 or less of the left hand version.

I hope this makes sense to everyone and answers the question as to why certain left hand models are not available here in the US or not at all. The left hand reels are gaining some ground and this might lead to more left hand reels in the future. So there is hope :)

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Re: Shimano Quality difference between USA/Japan

Postby mhood » Tue Jul 03, 2007 4:52 pm

Bantam1 wrote:We use the sales of the right hand models to offset the cost of tooling to make the left hand version. <snip> The left hand models might be available in Japan.


I'm a bit confused by this. Haven't you said that the SIC and SAC reels are made together? If the tooling has been done for a SIC lefty then where is the cost of tooling for an SAC lefty of the same model? :?

I also don't understand the discrepancies between your 25% lefty number and the very different figures TTF discovers every time a poll comes up.

One of several examples.
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Re: Shimano Quality difference between USA/Japan

Postby iangler » Tue Jul 03, 2007 5:03 pm

But those statistics are biased towards enthusiasts.
By the way, sounds like Shimano Japan is releasing the Met Mg lefty in a few months. So Shimano US shouldn't have any reason not to use the same base reel for a lefty Core ;)

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Re: Shimano Quality difference between USA/Japan

Postby greatbarracuda » Tue Jul 03, 2007 5:35 pm

doh, meant a. mixing up my darn alphabet.

like iangler alludes too, i'd think that in the high-end market, there would be a more even (but likely still not equal) distribution of users between left and right. the model that works for a citica, wouldn't necessarily be applicable to a calais.

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Re: Shimano Quality difference between USA/Japan

Postby ShoreBound » Wed Jul 04, 2007 10:16 pm

Bantam1 wrote:Lefty owners-

I just counted our low profile and round reel sku's for left handed model reels. We offer 26 different reel models in left hand versions. Currently we offer more left hand model reels than anyone else on the market.


I have a Calcutta 51 paired with a St. Croix Premier PC60MLF2. Loaded with PP 4/15 braid, I absolutely love it for live bait fishing. I had to buy this one on eBay because Shimano decided not to make the 51 anymore [-( I just pray this reel will last for a very long time and that I will still be able to find replacement parts if it breaks down.

There are some possible reasons why more people use righty reels:
1. Most entry-level reels are only available in right retrieve. Even Shimano is like that. Take a look at the Calisto, Crestfire and Coriolis. Same with Daiwa (this year they seem to have come up with a lefties for their entry level baitcasters), BPS and all the other manufacturers. A guy/gal who's just starting out to learn baitcasters will most probably pick up an entry-level reel and what retrieve choices does he/she have? Only a righty. By the time he/she graduates to better reels, he/she was already force-trained into using righties.

2. It seems like most people going out to buy their first baitcaster are not aware that they may be ALSO available in left retrieve. And also some guys who work in tackle shops either don't tell their customers that because themselves have already been trained to use righties or are just plain ignorant. As an example, when I went to BPS to buy my TD Sol, I was told that Daiwa never made it in left retrieve. Thank god I did my research.

I know, I know. It's all about market demand but what I'm saying is that if more reels are actually being made available in left retrieve then the more people will buy it.

I will definitely NOT buy a righty reel no matter how good it is. It's just very awkward for me to use. Shimano is one of my top two manufaturers when it comes to reels. If Shimano doesn't offer a reel I'm looking for in lefty, not much choice but scratch you out of the list. Sometimes disappointing but it does make the decision-making easy.

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Re: Shimano Quality difference between USA/Japan

Postby GAMEOVER » Wed Jul 04, 2007 10:30 pm

Im glad bantam left the thread it did turn to complete trash. Its funny how some people who posted on here can criticize my posts (and others) when they're posts are even worse with nothing to back anything said at all. Sometimes they dont even say nothing at all they just make a cocked off comment. The one who seems to keep silently slaping my opinions around is like a nazi on this board (minus the racism) who thinks (or atleast acts like) he's greater then all.:roll:

I made it clear im pro-performance and not pro-product many times. There isnt a reel Shimano makes that can out perform Daiwas Steez when it comes to some performance aspects. There's reels Shimano makes that Daiwa couldnt touch in performance either like the DC reels.

Those who choose to degrade my posts and opinions (and others) are completely classless and care too much about others opinions. Just because I want to see some things done doesnt make my opinions bad or "trash" like atleast two of you in this thread are making it out to be. If you have a problem then grow a pair and PM me. So sick of the few people who are trashing threads before they can develop just cause they dont like someone and/or their opinion. I know some of you hold back a lot of your opinions on a product here and there in fear of the outlash you may recieve (you know who you are) and thats BS. You should be able to voice your opinion on here regardless without someone bashing it.

Some need to stop acting better then people, because their not . If anyone has a problem with me they got a problem, im one of the easyest guys to get along with on here and ask anyone who knows me. Fishing for Bass, haveing nice equipment, and shareing that same passion with others who share the same is why im here.


GamblerHydra wrote:
mhood wrote:
GamblerHydra wrote:Reread some of Games first comments


No thanks... :lol:

GamblerHydra wrote:Using quality is a poor choice of words and sends the wrong message.


What is a better word? Sophistication, refinement, what???


:lol: :big grin: Yes, I would agree to those terms being used . It seems to a better choices in describing a further developed reel in manners of complexity.



Who is Fish Chris ??? :-({|= :lol22:


Fish Chris is like everyone else said, a Trophy Hunter. I use to talk to him here and there but never quoted him on anything or mentioned anything other then maybe "we have the same likes when it comes opinions on braided line" and that wouldnt even be on this forum. I respect and like him as a person but in no way shadow him or try to. I have no clue at all where or why he was mentioned amongst my name. I agree with Bantam about his name and how it should stay out of this thread.

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Re: Shimano Quality difference between USA/Japan

Postby Bantam1 » Thu Jul 05, 2007 8:03 am

Gameover
I made it clear im pro-performance and not pro-product many times. There isnt a reel Shimano makes that can out perform Daiwas Steez when it comes to some performance aspects. There's reels Shimano makes that Daiwa couldnt touch in performance either like the DC reels.


Try the new reel and then tell me if you still feel the same way :D I have fished with the brand X reel and I personally think our new reel will outperform this one. Theirs is slightly lighter than ours, but we have the gearing and the casting performance behind us.

It's all a matter of personal preference. D***a makes a great product and the S****e is a nice reel. I just feel that our new reel will change your opinion.


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