Drag slipping in cold weather

[aqua71]

I’m having issues with several Daiwa SV103 reels. I recently fished in cold weather (upper 20’s/low 30’s) and my drags were slipping. The reels have never been serviced as they are relatively new and factory stock.

I took apart one reel and removed all the factory grease from the drag stack. I reassembled it (DRY) and fished again several days ago and had the same issue.

Should I have used a specific solution to remove the grease? Was it a mistake to reinstall the drag stack DRY? Is there some other issue I overlooked that needs to be addressed? Thanks in advance for your help

[mark poulson]

I was told here that drag washers need some grease to function properly, just a light coat.

[hoohoorjoo]

Grease in the anti-reverse bearing will cause it to slip in cold weather, so maybe some of the factory grease from the gearing got in there. Soak them in 91% rubbing alcohol for a couple of hours, then wipe them with a clean dry cloth and allow to air dry. Add a very thin coating of Cal's drag grease before installing. I've had drag-stuttering issues with any other type of grease on the washers. Or you could just get Carbontex washers and be done with it.

[aqua71]

Guys, I appreciate your responses. The Daiwa SV103’s come equipped with carbon fiber washers which I’ve read can be installed DRY. Are you guys saying they should/must be lubed? If so, wouldn’t the grease be an issue under freezing temperatures?

[hoohoorjoo]

Guys, I appreciate your responses. The Daiwa SV103’s come equipped with carbon fiber washers which I’ve read can be installed DRY. Are you guys saying they should/must be lubed? If so, wouldn’t the grease be an issue under freezing temperatures?

Grease doesnt freeze at the same temp as water, as is the case with most petroleum products, but it does thicken around freezing.@ But I lube the carbontex washers I install with Cal's. It does reduce maximum drag pressure, but makes the drag smoother overall. This is strange.....did it start this issue after a cleaning? If so, it could be that you dont have your 2 thrust washers for the drag pressure like this: )( If they are like like this, (( or )), then you will have very little drag pressure and tightening the drag star won't increse max drag. This is the two washers that sit on top of the clicking mechanism just underneath the star.

[aqua71]

Guys, I appreciate your responses. The Daiwa SV103’s come equipped with carbon fiber washers which I’ve read can be installed DRY. Are you guys saying they should/must be lubed? If so, wouldn’t the grease be an issue under freezing temperatures?

Grease doesnt freeze at the same temp as water, as is the case with most petroleum products, but it does thicken around freezing.@ But I lube the carbontex washers I install with Cal's. It does reduce maximum drag pressure, but makes the drag smoother overall. This is strange.....did it start this issue after a cleaning? If so, it could be that you dont have your 2 thrust washers for the drag pressure like this: )( If they are like like this, (( or )), then you will have very little drag pressure and tightening the drag star won't increse max drag. This is the two washers that sit on top of the clicking mechanism just underneath the star.

Just to reiterate the reels have never been opened/serviced. I purchased 5 of them (brand new) late last winter and didn’t use them until this spring with zero issues.

Fast forward to now and 3 out of the 5 reels have the slipping drag issue. I assumed the grease was the culprit due to the freezing temps, so I disassembled and cleaned the drag grease from just one reel and reassembled it DRY.

Thinking I resolved the issue I was surprised to see that I still had the slipping drag on my following trip with a DRY drag stack. FYI: as the air temps warmed up later in the day ALL the reels worked perfectly fine, so something is causing a few of the reels to slip due to the freezing temps. And, yes, the thrust washers are correctly installed.

[hoohoorjoo]

Guys, I appreciate your responses. The Daiwa SV103’s come equipped with carbon fiber washers which I’ve read can be installed DRY. Are you guys saying they should/must be lubed? If so, wouldn’t the grease be an issue under freezing temperatures?

Grease doesnt freeze at the same temp as water, as is the case with most petroleum products, but it does thicken around freezing.@ But I lube the carbontex washers I install with Cal's. It does reduce maximum drag pressure, but makes the drag smoother overall. This is strange.....did it start this issue after a cleaning? If so, it could be that you dont have your 2 thrust washers for the drag pressure like this: )( If they are like like this, (( or )), then you will have very little drag pressure and tightening the drag star won't increse max drag. This is the two washers that sit on top of the clicking mechanism just underneath the star.

Just to reiterate the reels have never been opened/serviced. I purchased 5 of them (brand new) late last winter and didn’t use them until this spring with zero issues.

Fast forward to now and 3 out of the 5 reels have the slipping drag issue. I assumed the grease was the culprit due to the freezing temps, so I disassembled and cleaned the drag grease from just one reel and reassembled it DRY.

Thinking I resolved the issue I was surprised to see that I still had the slipping drag on my following trip with a DRY drag stack. FYI: as the air temps warmed up later in the day ALL the reels worked perfectly fine, so something is causing a few of the reels to slip due to the freezing temps. And, yes, the thrust washers are correctly installed.

I have repeatedly seen the anti-reverse bearing slip when it was cold, usually because there was grease in it, then the problem goes away as the day warms. It took me a while to figure out exactly what was happening the first time it happened to me, and I thought it was a drag problem, as well. If sufficiently cold, even a higher-viscosity oil will thicken enough to cause slippage during very cold weather, if there is an excess amount in the a/r bearing. Recently, most Daiwa reels have came to me over-lubed right out of the box, so I strip and re-lube them right away now. I've never heard of the drag itself slipping in cold weather, and I've fished with temps in the mid-20's a good bit back in my tourney days. Maybe this is your issue. Try cleaning the a/r bearing thoroughly with several q-tips and 91% rubbing alcohol, then re-lube with a low-viscosity oil such as Daiwa red or blue(a small vial usually comes with a reel). Make sure to rotate the swab clock-wise from the outside, so you actually make the rollers rotate and clean all the surfaces. If you swab counter-clock-wise, the a/r rollers lock and you don't get the entire surface of them. After re-lubing, I always run a clean dry swab around the inside to distribute the oil evenly and also remove any excess oil again. Too much there will readily migrate to other unwanted places, such as the drag stack. More than a very thin coating on each of the little rollers in that cage is just over-kill, anyay.

[y2k88]

Was the handle turning when your drag was slipping?

[mark poulson]

I think hoohoorjoo is on the right track.
Whenever I oil my bearings I add a couple of drops of oil, not grease, to my AR bearings, and I've never had a problem with them.
Try a couple of drops of reel oil on the AR bearing, and see if that helps.

[lifeofRiley]

In the past with many daiwa spinning reels from the late 90s until 2010 the anti-reverse would fail to function in really cold weather. I took one apart, a daiwa tierra 3000 thinking it was grease on the A/R rollers and sleeve. They were completely dry. I think some component in the A/R system was contracting in the cold weather and causing problems.

[aqua71]

Guys, thanks again for the suggestions, but let me be 100% clear. I have ZERO issues with the A/R bearings. The culprit is the DRAG STACK.

Was the handle turning when your drag was slipping?

No, the handle does not turn. The drag slips as though the drag star was completely backed off.

[uljersey]

All drags should slip to a degree, that's what they're designed to do. My questions are does the degree of slip incrementally change in proportion to small increases in drag tension as applied by the drag star ? Can you achieve full (or close to full) lockdown when the drag is at it's maximum setting ?

How are the cupped drag spring washers under the handle stacked ? () or )( ... they should be like this () NEVER this ))

One last Hail Mary thought ... you aren't by chance spooled with braid without backing are you ?

[aqua71]

All drags should slip to a degree, that's what they're designed to do. My questions are does the degree of slip incrementally change in proportion to small increases in drag tension as applied by the drag star ? Can you achieve full (or close to full) lockdown when the drag is at it's maximum setting ?

How are the cupped drag spring washers under the handle stacked ? () or )( ... they should be like this () NEVER this ))

One last Hail Mary thought ... you aren't by chance spooled with braid without backing are you ?

The drags on 3 out of the 5 reels DO NOT work under freezing temperatures. However, they WORK perfectly fine once air temps warm up.

The degree of slip does NOT CHANGE in proportion to drag tension. Like I stated above, the drag slips (zero tension) as though the DRAG STAR IS COMPLETELY BACKED OFF which makes it impossible to achieve any type of tension at ANY setting.

The drag spring washers are correctly stacked like this () and all the reels are spooled with fluoro.

[uljersey]

All drags should slip to a degree, that's what they're designed to do. My questions are does the degree of slip incrementally change in proportion to small increases in drag tension as applied by the drag star ? Can you achieve full (or close to full) lockdown when the drag is at it's maximum setting ?

How are the cupped drag spring washers under the handle stacked ? () or )( ... they should be like this () NEVER this ))

One last Hail Mary thought ... you aren't by chance spooled with braid without backing are you ?

The drags on 3 out of the 5 reels DO NOT work under freezing temperatures. However, they WORK perfectly fine once air temps warm up.

The degree of slip does NOT CHANGE in proportion to drag tension. Like I stated above, the drag slips (zero tension) as though the DRAG STAR IS COMPLETELY BACKED OFF which makes it impossible to achieve any type of tension at ANY setting.

The drag spring washers are correctly stacked like this () and all the reels are spooled with fluoro.

Interesting. My last thought is that flouro being stout with a relatively hard 'skin' could easily emulate the characteristics of braid especially in freezing temps. Perhaps unspooling one of the reels, apply a layer of tape or other soft material to the spool arbor and then respool as usual ... that would confirm or eliminate line being the issue.

[aqua71]

Interesting. My last thought is that flouro being stout with a relatively hard 'skin' could easily emulate the characteristics of braid especially in freezing temps. Perhaps unspooling one of the reels, apply a layer of tape or other soft material to the spool arbor and then respool as usual ... that would confirm or eliminate line being the issue.

The line absolutely positively does NOT slip on the spool. My only thought is that moisture is somehow building up inside the drag stack and freezing therefore rendering the drag useless (until air temps warm up).