A different type of bearing question

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slyck
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A different type of bearing question

Post by slyck » Wed Nov 29, 2017 7:42 am

Folks,

I have BOCAs, ZPIs and Hedgehog AIRs in my possession and my question is simply this;

Why do the BOCAs free spin along their central axis for significantly much longer (i.e. >5x) than either of the ZPIs or Hedgehog AIRs? :-k

Yes, the BOCAs are noisy, but all three are ceramic hybrid, so what gives? Is it the lack of lubricant in the BOCAs or the type of races in the bearings i.e. stainless steel (BOCA) races vs nylon?

Any insight would be much appreciated. Also does anyone know the country of manufacture for the BOCAs (Germany?). In fact the chinese ABEC7 variants off fleabay spin a lot longer than eitherof the other two.

Once again, my question doesn't have to do with performance or preference,but rather just why?

Thanks in advance for your insight and time.

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Re: A different type of bearing question

Post by Cracker » Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:58 am

They spin longer because Boca's came to you as lube free.
Clean the Hedgehog AIR with acetone, and they should rotate about a minute on a free spin, at least some of the mine do.
Boca's made in China, and you can buy exactly same bearings for $5 each on aliexpress.

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Re: A different type of bearing question

Post by slyck » Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:57 am

Thanks for taking the time to reply. So lube vs. non lubed is the ticket? However, ZPI clearly states to NOT run their bearings dry. Do you run your ZPIs dry?
Also, the Chinese variants of the same seem to have a crappier finish than the BOCAs, especially apparent when it comes to the finish of the so called orange seals.

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Re: A different type of bearing question

Post by PikeRoadBassn » Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:01 am

That's exactly right. Boca ships their bearings dry. Hedgehog, ZPI, etc ship their bearings oiled. The races in all of these are stainless. The difference is the bearing cage.

I cant say for their lower end bearings, but I know most of Boca's upper end bearings are of German origin. The bearings found on Alibaba or Ali Express are built on old tooling. Once bearing no longer meet the tolerances set forth by a manufacturer, the tooling is usually sold off.

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Re: A different type of bearing question

Post by PikeRoadBassn » Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:02 am

slyck wrote:Thanks for taking the time to reply. So lube vs. non lubed is the ticket? However, ZPI clearly states to NOT run their bearings dry. Do you run your ZPIs dry?
Also, the Chinese variants of the same seem to have a crappier finish than the BOCAs, especially apparent when it comes to the finish of the so called orange seals.
I run my ZPI bearings with ZPI Hyper Long Cast Oil
http://tackletrap.com/index.php?main_pa ... s_id=10375

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Re: A different type of bearing question

Post by slyck » Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:04 am

PikeRoadBassn wrote:That's exactly right. Boca ships their bearings dry. Hedgehog, ZPI, etc ship their bearings oiled. The races in all of these are stainless. The difference is the bearing cage.

I cant say for their lower end bearings, but I know most of Boca's upper end bearings are of German origin. The bearings found on Alibaba or Ali Express are built on old tooling. Once bearing no longer meet the tolerances set forth by a manufacturer, the tooling is usually sold off.
This is exactly what I thought i.e BOCAs ABEC7s Orange seals were German in origin. Have you run your BOCAs oiled? If so are the free spin times similar?

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Re: A different type of bearing question

Post by PikeRoadBassn » Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:06 am

slyck wrote:
PikeRoadBassn wrote:That's exactly right. Boca ships their bearings dry. Hedgehog, ZPI, etc ship their bearings oiled. The races in all of these are stainless. The difference is the bearing cage.

I cant say for their lower end bearings, but I know most of Boca's upper end bearings are of German origin. The bearings found on Alibaba or Ali Express are built on old tooling. Once bearing no longer meet the tolerances set forth by a manufacturer, the tooling is usually sold off.
This is exactly what I thought i.e BOCAs ABEC7s Orange seals were German in origin. Have you run your BOCAs oiled? If so are the free spin times similar?
I have, and free spin time is similar, but casting is not. The ZPI and Hedgehog will outcast an oiled Boca.

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Re: A different type of bearing question

Post by slyck » Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:45 am

PikeRoadBassn wrote:
slyck wrote:
PikeRoadBassn wrote:That's exactly right. Boca ships their bearings dry. Hedgehog, ZPI, etc ship their bearings oiled. The races in all of these are stainless. The difference is the bearing cage.

I cant say for their lower end bearings, but I know most of Boca's upper end bearings are of German origin. The bearings found on Alibaba or Ali Express are built on old tooling. Once bearing no longer meet the tolerances set forth by a manufacturer, the tooling is usually sold off.
This is exactly what I thought i.e BOCAs ABEC7s Orange seals were German in origin. Have you run your BOCAs oiled? If so are the free spin times similar?
I have, and free spin time is similar, but casting is not. The ZPI and Hedgehog will outcast an oiled Boca.
Thank you! When you say outcast, I take it you mean distance?

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Re: A different type of bearing question

Post by Cracker » Wed Nov 29, 2017 11:00 am

slyck wrote:Thanks for taking the time to reply. So lube vs. non lubed is the ticket? However, ZPI clearly states to NOT run their bearings dry. Do you run your ZPIs dry?
Also, the Chinese variants of the same seem to have a crappier finish than the BOCAs, especially apparent when it comes to the finish of the so called orange seals.
I don't have ZPI's anymore, sold everything I had, I personally think Hedgehogs AIR are better, I run all hybrid bearings (Daiwa-SLP, AIR, YT Fusion) only dry. I would have ZPI's I would also run them dry. Haven't noticed any damage by running hybrid bearing free of lube.
I have a pair of those Chinese Boca type bearings, they definitely sound louder, rotation time is less.
Haven't done a "scientific" test on a football field yet, in order to see, if they would cast as same as Hedgehog AIR.

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Re: A different type of bearing question

Post by slyck » Wed Nov 29, 2017 12:13 pm

Cracker wrote:
slyck wrote:Thanks for taking the time to reply. So lube vs. non lubed is the ticket? However, ZPI clearly states to NOT run their bearings dry. Do you run your ZPIs dry?
Also, the Chinese variants of the same seem to have a crappier finish than the BOCAs, especially apparent when it comes to the finish of the so called orange seals.
I don't have ZPI's anymore, sold everything I had, I personally think Hedgehogs AIR are better, I run all hybrid bearings (Daiwa-SLP, AIR, YT Fusion) only dry. I would have ZPI's I would also run them dry. Haven't noticed any damage by running hybrid bearing free of lube.
I have a pair of those Chinese Boca type bearings, they definitely sound louder, rotation time is less.
Haven't done a "scientific" test on a football field yet, in order to see, if they would cast as same as Hedgehog AIR.
Thank you!

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Re: A different type of bearing question

Post by DougL58 » Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:58 pm

I always run bearings dry but with a coating of Tungsten Disulfide. The pictures are not working now (Damn Photo Bucket) but the details there and there is a video.

viewtopic.php?f=30&t=68966&p=558171&hil ... de#p558171

https://youtu.be/yaRoov7SfYY

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Re: A different type of bearing question

Post by slyck » Sun Dec 17, 2017 8:08 am

DougL58 wrote:I always run bearings dry but with a coating of Tungsten Disulfide. The pictures are not working now (Damn Photo Bucket) but the details there and there is a video.

viewtopic.php?f=30&t=68966&p=558171&hil ... de#p558171

https://youtu.be/yaRoov7SfYY
Thank you DougL58. Very cool. I'm gonna have to use a more "poor man's" approach since I lack most of the tools. But very cool nonethelsss.

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Re: A different type of bearing question

Post by DougL58 » Sun Dec 17, 2017 6:20 pm

Dremel tool is a must to apply the tungsten disulfide to a bearing. The mandrels are only a few $ and are mostly made just by fitting parts together. I have applied the powder dry to the bearings in small amounts as well with good results. Place a small amount of the power on the bearing and hold the outside race while spinning. Powder is inexpensive on ebay in small amounts.

I estimate a 15% increase in casting distance when bearings are treated well.

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Re: A different type of bearing question

Post by slyck » Sun Dec 17, 2017 6:44 pm

DougL58 wrote:Dremel tool is a must to apply the tungsten disulfide to a bearing. The mandrels are only a few $ and are mostly made just by fitting parts together. I have applied the powder dry to the bearings in small amounts as well with good results. Place a small amount of the power on the bearing and hold the outside race while spinning. Powder is inexpensive on ebay in small amounts.

I estimate a 15% increase in casting distance when bearings are treated well.
Well crap. Any chance of getting a decent coating by applying the ws2 as a suspension in acetone with a brush. Ordered some ws2 via ebay.

Would this work for a dremel
https://www.amazon.com/Dremel-7700-1-15 ... remel+tool

And this for a mandrel
https://www.amazon.com/Dremel-EZ402-EZ- ... ol+mandrel

Sorry, my knowledge of tools is pretty basic.

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Re: A different type of bearing question

Post by ScoobyDoo » Mon Dec 18, 2017 5:37 pm

slyck wrote:
DougL58 wrote:Dremel tool is a must to apply the tungsten disulfide to a bearing. The mandrels are only a few $ and are mostly made just by fitting parts together. I have applied the powder dry to the bearings in small amounts as well with good results. Place a small amount of the power on the bearing and hold the outside race while spinning. Powder is inexpensive on ebay in small amounts.

I estimate a 15% increase in casting distance when bearings are treated well.
Well crap. Any chance of getting a decent coating by applying the ws2 as a suspension in acetone with a brush. Ordered some ws2 via ebay.

Would this work for a dremel
https://www.amazon.com/Dremel-7700-1-15 ... remel+tool

And this for a mandrel
https://www.amazon.com/Dremel-EZ402-EZ- ... ol+mandrel

Sorry, my knowledge of tools is pretty basic.
The mandrel will not work thats a quick change cutting wheel mandrel.

The simpler screw type will work on most spool bearings.
You can also get the dremel kit with the quick change chuck. And use a machine screw (that has a tapered head and a matching nut. That way the bearing is always centered.

Not sure what the rpms get to on the cordless...I used a corded

I've found that tungsten disulfide "Impingment" which is believe is the proper term. Last for awhile for bass reels.
But high speed long rang conventionals. Not so much.. (500-600-700' plus) I've also confirmed this with other distance casters.

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