A different type of bearing question
A different type of bearing question
Folks,
I have BOCAs, ZPIs and Hedgehog AIRs in my possession and my question is simply this;
Why do the BOCAs free spin along their central axis for significantly much longer (i.e. >5x) than either of the ZPIs or Hedgehog AIRs?
Yes, the BOCAs are noisy, but all three are ceramic hybrid, so what gives? Is it the lack of lubricant in the BOCAs or the type of races in the bearings i.e. stainless steel (BOCA) races vs nylon?
Any insight would be much appreciated. Also does anyone know the country of manufacture for the BOCAs (Germany?). In fact the chinese ABEC7 variants off fleabay spin a lot longer than eitherof the other two.
Once again, my question doesn't have to do with performance or preference,but rather just why?
Thanks in advance for your insight and time.
I have BOCAs, ZPIs and Hedgehog AIRs in my possession and my question is simply this;
Why do the BOCAs free spin along their central axis for significantly much longer (i.e. >5x) than either of the ZPIs or Hedgehog AIRs?
Yes, the BOCAs are noisy, but all three are ceramic hybrid, so what gives? Is it the lack of lubricant in the BOCAs or the type of races in the bearings i.e. stainless steel (BOCA) races vs nylon?
Any insight would be much appreciated. Also does anyone know the country of manufacture for the BOCAs (Germany?). In fact the chinese ABEC7 variants off fleabay spin a lot longer than eitherof the other two.
Once again, my question doesn't have to do with performance or preference,but rather just why?
Thanks in advance for your insight and time.
Re: A different type of bearing question
They spin longer because Boca's came to you as lube free.
Clean the Hedgehog AIR with acetone, and they should rotate about a minute on a free spin, at least some of the mine do.
Boca's made in China, and you can buy exactly same bearings for $5 each on aliexpress.
Clean the Hedgehog AIR with acetone, and they should rotate about a minute on a free spin, at least some of the mine do.
Boca's made in China, and you can buy exactly same bearings for $5 each on aliexpress.
Re: A different type of bearing question
Thanks for taking the time to reply. So lube vs. non lubed is the ticket? However, ZPI clearly states to NOT run their bearings dry. Do you run your ZPIs dry?
Also, the Chinese variants of the same seem to have a crappier finish than the BOCAs, especially apparent when it comes to the finish of the so called orange seals.
Also, the Chinese variants of the same seem to have a crappier finish than the BOCAs, especially apparent when it comes to the finish of the so called orange seals.
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Re: A different type of bearing question
That's exactly right. Boca ships their bearings dry. Hedgehog, ZPI, etc ship their bearings oiled. The races in all of these are stainless. The difference is the bearing cage.
I cant say for their lower end bearings, but I know most of Boca's upper end bearings are of German origin. The bearings found on Alibaba or Ali Express are built on old tooling. Once bearing no longer meet the tolerances set forth by a manufacturer, the tooling is usually sold off.
I cant say for their lower end bearings, but I know most of Boca's upper end bearings are of German origin. The bearings found on Alibaba or Ali Express are built on old tooling. Once bearing no longer meet the tolerances set forth by a manufacturer, the tooling is usually sold off.
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Re: A different type of bearing question
I run my ZPI bearings with ZPI Hyper Long Cast Oilslyck wrote:Thanks for taking the time to reply. So lube vs. non lubed is the ticket? However, ZPI clearly states to NOT run their bearings dry. Do you run your ZPIs dry?
Also, the Chinese variants of the same seem to have a crappier finish than the BOCAs, especially apparent when it comes to the finish of the so called orange seals.
http://tackletrap.com/index.php?main_pa ... s_id=10375
Re: A different type of bearing question
This is exactly what I thought i.e BOCAs ABEC7s Orange seals were German in origin. Have you run your BOCAs oiled? If so are the free spin times similar?PikeRoadBassn wrote:That's exactly right. Boca ships their bearings dry. Hedgehog, ZPI, etc ship their bearings oiled. The races in all of these are stainless. The difference is the bearing cage.
I cant say for their lower end bearings, but I know most of Boca's upper end bearings are of German origin. The bearings found on Alibaba or Ali Express are built on old tooling. Once bearing no longer meet the tolerances set forth by a manufacturer, the tooling is usually sold off.
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Re: A different type of bearing question
I have, and free spin time is similar, but casting is not. The ZPI and Hedgehog will outcast an oiled Boca.slyck wrote:This is exactly what I thought i.e BOCAs ABEC7s Orange seals were German in origin. Have you run your BOCAs oiled? If so are the free spin times similar?PikeRoadBassn wrote:That's exactly right. Boca ships their bearings dry. Hedgehog, ZPI, etc ship their bearings oiled. The races in all of these are stainless. The difference is the bearing cage.
I cant say for their lower end bearings, but I know most of Boca's upper end bearings are of German origin. The bearings found on Alibaba or Ali Express are built on old tooling. Once bearing no longer meet the tolerances set forth by a manufacturer, the tooling is usually sold off.
Re: A different type of bearing question
Thank you! When you say outcast, I take it you mean distance?PikeRoadBassn wrote:I have, and free spin time is similar, but casting is not. The ZPI and Hedgehog will outcast an oiled Boca.slyck wrote:This is exactly what I thought i.e BOCAs ABEC7s Orange seals were German in origin. Have you run your BOCAs oiled? If so are the free spin times similar?PikeRoadBassn wrote:That's exactly right. Boca ships their bearings dry. Hedgehog, ZPI, etc ship their bearings oiled. The races in all of these are stainless. The difference is the bearing cage.
I cant say for their lower end bearings, but I know most of Boca's upper end bearings are of German origin. The bearings found on Alibaba or Ali Express are built on old tooling. Once bearing no longer meet the tolerances set forth by a manufacturer, the tooling is usually sold off.
Re: A different type of bearing question
I don't have ZPI's anymore, sold everything I had, I personally think Hedgehogs AIR are better, I run all hybrid bearings (Daiwa-SLP, AIR, YT Fusion) only dry. I would have ZPI's I would also run them dry. Haven't noticed any damage by running hybrid bearing free of lube.slyck wrote:Thanks for taking the time to reply. So lube vs. non lubed is the ticket? However, ZPI clearly states to NOT run their bearings dry. Do you run your ZPIs dry?
Also, the Chinese variants of the same seem to have a crappier finish than the BOCAs, especially apparent when it comes to the finish of the so called orange seals.
I have a pair of those Chinese Boca type bearings, they definitely sound louder, rotation time is less.
Haven't done a "scientific" test on a football field yet, in order to see, if they would cast as same as Hedgehog AIR.
Re: A different type of bearing question
Thank you!Cracker wrote:I don't have ZPI's anymore, sold everything I had, I personally think Hedgehogs AIR are better, I run all hybrid bearings (Daiwa-SLP, AIR, YT Fusion) only dry. I would have ZPI's I would also run them dry. Haven't noticed any damage by running hybrid bearing free of lube.slyck wrote:Thanks for taking the time to reply. So lube vs. non lubed is the ticket? However, ZPI clearly states to NOT run their bearings dry. Do you run your ZPIs dry?
Also, the Chinese variants of the same seem to have a crappier finish than the BOCAs, especially apparent when it comes to the finish of the so called orange seals.
I have a pair of those Chinese Boca type bearings, they definitely sound louder, rotation time is less.
Haven't done a "scientific" test on a football field yet, in order to see, if they would cast as same as Hedgehog AIR.
Re: A different type of bearing question
I always run bearings dry but with a coating of Tungsten Disulfide. The pictures are not working now (Damn Photo Bucket) but the details there and there is a video.
viewtopic.php?f=30&t=68966&p=558171&hil ... de#p558171
https://youtu.be/yaRoov7SfYY
viewtopic.php?f=30&t=68966&p=558171&hil ... de#p558171
https://youtu.be/yaRoov7SfYY
Re: A different type of bearing question
Thank you DougL58. Very cool. I'm gonna have to use a more "poor man's" approach since I lack most of the tools. But very cool nonethelsss.DougL58 wrote:I always run bearings dry but with a coating of Tungsten Disulfide. The pictures are not working now (Damn Photo Bucket) but the details there and there is a video.
viewtopic.php?f=30&t=68966&p=558171&hil ... de#p558171
https://youtu.be/yaRoov7SfYY
Re: A different type of bearing question
Dremel tool is a must to apply the tungsten disulfide to a bearing. The mandrels are only a few $ and are mostly made just by fitting parts together. I have applied the powder dry to the bearings in small amounts as well with good results. Place a small amount of the power on the bearing and hold the outside race while spinning. Powder is inexpensive on ebay in small amounts.
I estimate a 15% increase in casting distance when bearings are treated well.
I estimate a 15% increase in casting distance when bearings are treated well.
Re: A different type of bearing question
Well crap. Any chance of getting a decent coating by applying the ws2 as a suspension in acetone with a brush. Ordered some ws2 via ebay.DougL58 wrote:Dremel tool is a must to apply the tungsten disulfide to a bearing. The mandrels are only a few $ and are mostly made just by fitting parts together. I have applied the powder dry to the bearings in small amounts as well with good results. Place a small amount of the power on the bearing and hold the outside race while spinning. Powder is inexpensive on ebay in small amounts.
I estimate a 15% increase in casting distance when bearings are treated well.
Would this work for a dremel
https://www.amazon.com/Dremel-7700-1-15 ... remel+tool
And this for a mandrel
https://www.amazon.com/Dremel-EZ402-EZ- ... ol+mandrel
Sorry, my knowledge of tools is pretty basic.
Re: A different type of bearing question
The mandrel will not work thats a quick change cutting wheel mandrel.slyck wrote:Well crap. Any chance of getting a decent coating by applying the ws2 as a suspension in acetone with a brush. Ordered some ws2 via ebay.DougL58 wrote:Dremel tool is a must to apply the tungsten disulfide to a bearing. The mandrels are only a few $ and are mostly made just by fitting parts together. I have applied the powder dry to the bearings in small amounts as well with good results. Place a small amount of the power on the bearing and hold the outside race while spinning. Powder is inexpensive on ebay in small amounts.
I estimate a 15% increase in casting distance when bearings are treated well.
Would this work for a dremel
https://www.amazon.com/Dremel-7700-1-15 ... remel+tool
And this for a mandrel
https://www.amazon.com/Dremel-EZ402-EZ- ... ol+mandrel
Sorry, my knowledge of tools is pretty basic.
The simpler screw type will work on most spool bearings.
You can also get the dremel kit with the quick change chuck. And use a machine screw (that has a tapered head and a matching nut. That way the bearing is always centered.
Not sure what the rpms get to on the cordless...I used a corded
I've found that tungsten disulfide "Impingment" which is believe is the proper term. Last for awhile for bass reels.
But high speed long rang conventionals. Not so much.. (500-600-700' plus) I've also confirmed this with other distance casters.