molecularly bonding grease

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mark poulson
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molecularly bonding grease

Post by mark poulson » Tue Aug 15, 2017 6:49 am

Which reel greases bond to the gear metal, and do they bond to both brass and aluminum?

PikeRoadBassn
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Re: molecularly bonding grease

Post by PikeRoadBassn » Tue Aug 15, 2017 5:39 pm

There isn't one that I am aware of.

mark poulson
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Re: molecularly bonding grease

Post by mark poulson » Tue Aug 15, 2017 6:03 pm

PikeRoadBassn wrote:There isn't one that I am aware of.
Thanks for the reply. I keep hearing about it, but I don't see how it is possible.

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Re: molecularly bonding grease

Post by PikeRoadBassn » Tue Aug 15, 2017 7:28 pm

mark poulson wrote:
PikeRoadBassn wrote:There isn't one that I am aware of.
Thanks for the reply. I keep hearing about it, but I don't see how it is possible.
PTFE Dry lubes "bond" to metal and other surfaces, however they are not designed for loads. On a worm gear it might be ok, but on a drive gear...nah.
Last edited by PikeRoadBassn on Wed Aug 16, 2017 6:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

Slazmo
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Re: molecularly bonding grease

Post by Slazmo » Wed Aug 16, 2017 3:18 am

PikeRoadBassn wrote:PTFE Dry lubes "bond" to metal and other surfaces, however they are not designed for loads. On a worm gear it might be ok, but on a srivecgear...nah.
They fill in irregularities as the PTFE particles are free floating in a suspension eg oil. Spray on dry / flash off style bonding dry lubes are similar and rely on the properties of whatever the spray that flashes off is - teflon is teflon and only its ratio in suspension can changes.

Finding out the micron size of the particles would be beneficial as well anything between .5 / 2 microns would be suitable.

Inox does a dry lube and I've tried it - however for continuing mechanical gear mashing its hard to say when its worn off or out.

mark poulson
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Re: molecularly bonding grease

Post by mark poulson » Wed Aug 16, 2017 12:08 pm

Thanks both of you.
My switch to reels with aluminum gears is the reason for my question.
It seems like I have to lube them a lot more often than my old brass gears. Maybe it's that brass gears are softer, so I don't notice when the gears are dry as much.

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Re: molecularly bonding grease

Post by Slazmo » Wed Aug 16, 2017 2:40 pm

If the aluminum is clear anodized the grease will slip off the surface easier than a rougher uncoated.

mark poulson
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Re: molecularly bonding grease

Post by mark poulson » Wed Aug 16, 2017 5:16 pm

Slazmo wrote:If the aluminum is clear anodized the grease will slip off the surface easier than a rougher uncoated.
So anodized gears are smoother, and they would be smoother under the force of cranking, until the anodizing wears through, but won't hold grease as long, and uncoated gears hold grease better, but are rougher to begin with, so would probably wear faster, anyway, and require service more frequently to keep them running smoothly.
Are all aluminum reel gears anodized?

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Re: molecularly bonding grease

Post by Slazmo » Wed Aug 16, 2017 5:27 pm

I'll have to reply with my laptop and not my Galaxy tab. Too much writing to reply to this one.

mark poulson
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Re: molecularly bonding grease

Post by mark poulson » Wed Aug 16, 2017 6:40 pm

Slazmo wrote:I'll have to reply with my laptop and not my Galaxy tab. Too much writing to reply to this one.
Thanks.

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Re: molecularly bonding grease

Post by Slazmo » Fri Aug 18, 2017 12:21 am

Within regards to "molecular bonding" - such claims from Quantum with their grease and oil range cant be trusted due to more of their marketing is involved than true science. Finding greases and oils with proper science backed testing with film strengths and mechanical tests for their performances in real world applications is what I would be looking at. Hence why I use Inox, worked there at their Logan factory and saw what went into it all and trust it more than the more expensive alternatives available to fisherman in specifics for 'fishing reels'. A lot of these commercially available greases and oils in small retail packages are actually repackaged commercially available products with margins that are typically over inflated to adjust to their ego's of their products.

Some greases and oils specifically designed for the fishing reel market - try finding MSDS's or scientific literature about their composition or their tests - wont be available...

Anyhow getting on with my dribble 8-[

Applying a grease thats overly tacky will feel once applied 'doughy' and in result slow down a reel, however due to the tackifiers used will tend to hold even with most of the excess grease squeezed out in use with either straight or slip gears in either spin or overhead reels, thus due to tight tolerances between teeth. Applying too thin a grease thats overly creamy and not as tacky will see that flung off due to centrifugal forces - nature of the beast. Thick greases are bad for fine light reels due to lightness of rotation, however light greases in these too will allow grease to be flung off and wear to occur. Heavy reels serviced with light greases and oils, will burn through them and as logically as can be will introduce a dry environment that will allow wear to occur, heavier greases in heavier reels wont overly affect their performance but will hang around a hell of a lot longer.

Solid lubricants, like graphite MOS2, WS2 through dry film bonding can be successful through dry annealing to surfaces. How successful can you be running a dry reel is a hard thing to measure. I have run a reel dry, all bearings and drive gear box with a powdered lubricant - its messy and its noisy. Excess lubricant isnt useful in the reel itself and any addition of oil / water ingress can and will turn it into a paste which can lead to poor performance - so finding the right mix / levels is imperative for dry operation.

Application to uncoated surfaces is more successful than those coated with anodizing especially aluminium, as anodising coats the surface with a micron thick surface treatment that closes up the pores (aluminium). HA3 anodising would be the best treatment however Shimano's "paladin" coating is unknown and is known to wear quiet quickly with severe service operation schedules. Ive seen relatively new Soar CI4+'s with their main gears shot and needing swapping out - as they've gone geary.

IMHO reapplication of grease and oils to a surface with a mixed portion of dry solid lubricants is the best bet. These are allowed to anneal into the surface and any excess is expunged through mechanical force, relying on any grease to 'bond' is honestly a fallacy and marketing gymik.

Calculating the service period of any reel with use and severity of use including environmental forces (moisture, being doused / wet, gear cranking pressure, drag pressure, casting and retrieval rates in one day and other factors) can honestly tell you when you should reapply grease and oils to keep the mechanical elements well lubricated to prevent excessive wear - and by only applying the best oils and greases to those parts will keep reels running smoothly - or as smooth as possible.

Relying on a grease or oil that states "molecular bonding" wouldn't be rated too high on my believable scale, nothing beats true servicing and care of your tools and investment with quality lubes.

mark poulson
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Re: molecularly bonding grease

Post by mark poulson » Fri Aug 18, 2017 1:01 pm

Great write up!
Thanks for taking the time 'splain it to me Lucy! :lol: :lol: :lol:

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