Marking gears during service

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Slazmo
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Marking gears during service

Post by Slazmo » Fri Apr 14, 2017 8:57 pm

G'day everyone,

So after reading all these posts about gears becoming "geary", asking the question who marks their gears before total disassembly - thus to avoid the geary feel?

I've got a tungsten tipped metal marking scribe that I mark "I" marks both into the pinion and mains on both spinning and casting reels, as to be able to re-mesh the gears at that exact spot upon rebuild.

I mean I do a fair few reels, mine, friends and complete strangers... In the early days I would rebuild with a randomised re-mesh and the results were usually the reel feeling geary for a time untill the gears would settle with use. A lot of guys would "loose their biscuit" however with explanation and some use it would go away., end of story.

Anyhow tips, tricks and or thoughts on this matter?

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BARRAMANIAC
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Re: Marking gears during service

Post by BARRAMANIAC » Fri Apr 14, 2017 9:15 pm

Have you had any issues since you started marking reels.
Sounds like a good idea.
its something i haven't thought about before, and I also have a reel service and repair hobby business, I am a fitter machinist and quite often mark components when disassembling so as to go back together the same but haven't thought about it or tried with reels.

-Boris-
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Re: Marking gears during service

Post by -Boris- » Fri Apr 14, 2017 9:24 pm

In my opinion it doesn't matter, because the gear ratio isn't even, so that at each turn of the main gear every teeth of the pinion meets another teeth of the main gear.
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Slazmo
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Re: Marking gears during service

Post by Slazmo » Fri Apr 14, 2017 9:29 pm

-Boris- wrote:In my opinion it doesn't matter, because the gear ratio isn't even, so that at each turn of the main gear every teeth of the pinion meets another teeth of the main gear.
My thoughts exactly, and I'm not even an engineer lol...

Anyhow it'll help a few people it seems.

Slazmo
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Re: Marking gears during service

Post by Slazmo » Fri Apr 14, 2017 9:33 pm

Slazmo wrote:
-Boris- wrote:In my opinion it doesn't matter, because the gear ratio isn't even, so that at each turn of the main gear every teeth of the pinion meets another teeth of the main gear.
My thoughts exactly, and I'm not even an engineer lol...

Anyhow it'll help a few people it seems.
BARRAMANIAC wrote:I also have a reel service and repair hobby business, I am a fitter machinist
Think your name is Matt.

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BARRAMANIAC
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Re: Marking gears during service

Post by BARRAMANIAC » Fri Apr 14, 2017 9:34 pm

It would make sense if the number of teeth on the pinion divides into the number of teeth on the main with a whole number. Then the teeth would be contacting the same points on each revolution.

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BARRAMANIAC
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Re: Marking gears during service

Post by BARRAMANIAC » Fri Apr 14, 2017 9:39 pm

Slazmo wrote:
Slazmo wrote:
-Boris- wrote:In my opinion it doesn't matter, because the gear ratio isn't even, so that at each turn of the main gear every teeth of the pinion meets another teeth of the main gear.
My thoughts exactly, and I'm not even an engineer lol...

Anyhow it'll help a few people it seems.
BARRAMANIAC wrote:I also have a reel service and repair hobby business, I am a fitter machinist
Think your name is Matt.
Yeah it is mate, i am not here to bust your balls or prove you wrong, i am here to share and learn like everyone else.
I am puzzled why you blocked me on Facebook as we have never had a keyboard argument but each to there own.

Jeffbro999
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Re: Marking gears during service

Post by Jeffbro999 » Sat Apr 15, 2017 1:17 am

No marks here, but thought about it early on when I started repairing my reels. It's a good idea, but not really needed as Barra and Boris said. I had the geary feeling in my saltwater Met for a little while, but after the last service it is now super smooth, feel nothing when turning the handle, and how it should be.

Sore Thumb
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Re: Marking gears during service

Post by Sore Thumb » Sat Apr 15, 2017 7:31 pm

As part of my work over the years, i have rebuilt quite a few gearboxes. Usually much bigger than those in reels. While rarely necessary, it is often a good idea to match mark gear teeth. In some, especially a certain brand of mining equipment, the wheel mounted reduction gearboxes would not work unless correctly "timed". Pain in the neck, and they were a badly designed piece of xxx.
However, if you were to look at the rebuilt reels teeth closely enough, you will notice a new wear pattern forming when they are assembled in a different meshing position. This is the resultant geary feel, which as noted, will go away with time.
On a similar theme, you can also tell a change in lubricant from similar wear marks. In a fishing reel, nothing to worry about, but may be of interest to reel tinkerers.

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GOOD YEAR 71
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Re: Marking gears during service

Post by GOOD YEAR 71 » Sun Apr 16, 2017 12:31 pm

Mesh characteristic, be it due to random wear or manufacture discrpency, is in effect a weak spot. Putting back the same puts stress back the same, if a tooth is gonna fail this is where it likely happens. Rotating would redistribute the stress.
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LgMouthGambler
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Re: Marking gears during service

Post by LgMouthGambler » Tue Apr 18, 2017 6:21 am

They will never stay the same anyways. Its gonna do nothing to help.
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brownhl
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Re: Marking gears during service

Post by brownhl » Sun Apr 23, 2017 2:14 am

I have been cleaning/tuning my own reels now (all Shimano) for 16 years and have never worried about it. I clean them and just put them back in. My oldest reels, Curado 100B's are 10 years old and still purring.

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Re: Marking gears during service

Post by smalliesteve » Fri May 26, 2017 5:50 pm

-Boris- wrote:In my opinion it doesn't matter, because the gear ratio isn't even, so that at each turn of the main gear every teeth of the pinion meets another teeth of the main gear.
BARRAMANIAC wrote:It would make sense if the number of teeth on the pinion divides into the number of teeth on the main with a whole number. Then the teeth would be contacting the same points on each revolution.
+3

Only way the same teeth always mesh is if the gear ratio is a whole number e.g 7.0:1. If it's 7.1:1 or 6.3:1 etc., the meshing teeth change every rotation and it can't make a difference. Even if it's, for example 7.0:1, each tooth on the pinion gear will mesh with 7 different teeth on the drive gear every rotation.

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Re: Marking gears during service

Post by mark poulson » Fri May 26, 2017 7:34 pm

smalliesteve wrote:
-Boris- wrote:In my opinion it doesn't matter, because the gear ratio isn't even, so that at each turn of the main gear every teeth of the pinion meets another teeth of the main gear.
BARRAMANIAC wrote:It would make sense if the number of teeth on the pinion divides into the number of teeth on the main with a whole number. Then the teeth would be contacting the same points on each revolution.
+3

Only way the same teeth always mesh is if the gear ratio is a whole number e.g 7.0:1. If it's 7.1:1 or 6.3:1 etc., the meshing teeth change every rotation and it can't make a difference. Even if it's, for example 7.0:1, each tooth on the pinion gear will mesh with 7 different teeth on the drive gear every rotation.
Do you think they made the gears that way so there would be no "harmonic" repetition, keeping the wear even for every tooth?

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