So I have built a bigger reel (5600) but I was considering a 4600. The question I have is if I totally max it out are they still controllable on the cast?
Looking at tuning a newer c3
dual ball bearing level wind
ceramic pawl
upgrades spool bearings
dual ball bearing cog
dual ball bearing revo handle
titanium line guide
Carbontex drag
a little polish here and there.
May also do a gear swap
I plan to medium size striper baits - such as a red fin or thunderstick
I have heard some say that the smaller reels were a bit hard to handle without overruns.
Any info would be appreciated
Thanks!
Abu 4600 tuned to the max - how do they cast?
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arrowslinger1
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Re: Abu 4600 tuned to the max - how do they cast?
I would strongly advice you not to change reel.
To begin with, you will not get a particularly smaller reel. Ok, the width will be less but the profile will still be very high compared to almost any reel on the market. You will save some weight, but not a lot compared to changing brand/model.
But what about casting? I have owned and sold my 4X00, of course max tuned with every part i could find except for the spool. In my opinion and the general consensus regarding the performance of the reel is that it casts shorter and less controllable than a Ambassadeur 5X00. The fairly disaponting performance can probably be tracked down to the synchronized levelwind which with its comparatively short length will go back and forth a lot. This steals a lot of energy from the spool and is the reason why casting length is reduced.
What is it in the 4600 you are looking for?
To begin with, you will not get a particularly smaller reel. Ok, the width will be less but the profile will still be very high compared to almost any reel on the market. You will save some weight, but not a lot compared to changing brand/model.
But what about casting? I have owned and sold my 4X00, of course max tuned with every part i could find except for the spool. In my opinion and the general consensus regarding the performance of the reel is that it casts shorter and less controllable than a Ambassadeur 5X00. The fairly disaponting performance can probably be tracked down to the synchronized levelwind which with its comparatively short length will go back and forth a lot. This steals a lot of energy from the spool and is the reason why casting length is reduced.
What is it in the 4600 you are looking for?
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arrowslinger1
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- Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2011 8:15 am
Re: Abu 4600 tuned to the max - how do they cast?
Well, I had a nice 5600 and didn't like the cast button on the side vs the thumb bar on the 4600. I don't really need the line capacity and I like the narrower size in my hand. I really just like to tinker 
I also may put a lower gear ratio as my 5600 felt very underpowered and taxed when pulling medium size bait. It just didn't seem to have near the power as say a curado200 e7 even tho it was a lower gear.
I just want to make sure the 4600 will be a caster that I can manage - again don't really need to cast light stuff, I just want it smooth.
I also may put a lower gear ratio as my 5600 felt very underpowered and taxed when pulling medium size bait. It just didn't seem to have near the power as say a curado200 e7 even tho it was a lower gear. I just want to make sure the 4600 will be a caster that I can manage - again don't really need to cast light stuff, I just want it smooth.
Re: Abu 4600 tuned to the max - how do they cast?
I live in Sweden, where the Ambassadeur has been THE baitcaster for the last 50 years so there is a fair amount of collected wisdom on these reels floating around on the swedish forums. General consensus on the 4X00 reels are that they are the worst performing reels in the classic series.
Also the HEG gears in the curado is superior to the ambassadeur gears.
If you want a more narrow round reel I would suggest a luna or calcutta in 200 size. But then there is not very much to tinker with. But if you go for the 4600 there is one upgrade that will make ALL the difference. Probably more than the rest together. That is an aluminum lineguide. It weighs 1/3 of the standard brass/chrome which really makes all the difference with that reel. It is about 50 USD with ceramic linepawl and really is the best upgrade available for that reel.
How big reel do you need?
Have you considered the Ambassadeur 2600 which is one of the best performing round reels on the market if you only look at casting performance...
Also the HEG gears in the curado is superior to the ambassadeur gears.
If you want a more narrow round reel I would suggest a luna or calcutta in 200 size. But then there is not very much to tinker with. But if you go for the 4600 there is one upgrade that will make ALL the difference. Probably more than the rest together. That is an aluminum lineguide. It weighs 1/3 of the standard brass/chrome which really makes all the difference with that reel. It is about 50 USD with ceramic linepawl and really is the best upgrade available for that reel.
How big reel do you need?
Have you considered the Ambassadeur 2600 which is one of the best performing round reels on the market if you only look at casting performance...
Re: Abu 4600 tuned to the max - how do they cast?
X2 on the 2600. Lots of tinkering/tuning available and amazing casting performance!
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arrowslinger1
- Elite Angler
- Posts: 513
- Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2011 8:15 am
Re: Abu 4600 tuned to the max - how do they cast?
Thanks for all the input guys, where can I find an aluminum line guide? How do they hold up?
Re: Abu 4600 tuned to the max - how do they cast?
Actually the "consensus" mentioned by Ninjaman is in reality the fact that UT once claimed this is the case, seems that very few in Sweden "dare" say anything that goes against UT:s gospel. The few discussions I've had with him actually made me question his engineering skills - still his tuning kits do perform well, so I reckon he's done something right.
My personal belief is that he simply assembled kits with components from different manufacturers (Avail spool, B trap levelwind or similar), reckon he bought enough to have them anodized in any color he wished.
The debate is still on going regarding the 4x Ambassadeurs, as late as last week there was a thread at the largest Swedish fishing forum, a couple of old timers (both in regards to fishing and tinkering) are quite adamant that their tricked out 4x reels perform on level with similarly tricked out 5x reels.
My advice would be not to listen too much to those that claim "it can't be done", if you like to tinker why not rather try to prove that it indeed can be done?
Despite the above, if you can get your hands on a 2500 that would definitely be the preferred route to go.
My personal belief is that he simply assembled kits with components from different manufacturers (Avail spool, B trap levelwind or similar), reckon he bought enough to have them anodized in any color he wished.
The debate is still on going regarding the 4x Ambassadeurs, as late as last week there was a thread at the largest Swedish fishing forum, a couple of old timers (both in regards to fishing and tinkering) are quite adamant that their tricked out 4x reels perform on level with similarly tricked out 5x reels.
My advice would be not to listen too much to those that claim "it can't be done", if you like to tinker why not rather try to prove that it indeed can be done?
Despite the above, if you can get your hands on a 2500 that would definitely be the preferred route to go.
Re: Abu 4600 tuned to the max - how do they cast?
I agree with mooki that much of the UT gospels should be questioned more. I have also tried that on the forum you are refering to. I also agree that most products he labeled his own was simple rebranding. On this though I must agree with both UT and lots of others since I have actually tried tuning the reel myself. It is in my opinion a reel with to narrow spool to benefit from non disengaging levelwind and simply does not perform as great as the 5X00 tuned similarly. I have tried, but nerver succeded in making a really nice reel out of a 4x00, but highly tuned 2x00, 5x00 and 6500 have turned out really well. I am not saying the 4600 is a bad reel. But going from a 5600 will probably be a disapointment in casting performance.
Re: Abu 4600 tuned to the max - how do they cast?
If you need to make a long caster, you could just remove the level-wind assembly. I think 4000 sized ABU might be narrow enough to easily manage without one. Just something you might want to try. I sometimes fish the ABU 6500 CS Rocket but I know they make an Ambassadeur (I think they are the CT series) without the level-wind. Don't quote me on this because it's been years since I've messed with them .
.Re: Abu 4600 tuned to the max - how do they cast?
ninjaman wrote:I agree with mooki that much of the UT gospels should be questioned more. I have also tried that on the forum you are refering to. I also agree that most products he labeled his own was simple rebranding. On this though I must agree with both UT and lots of others since I have actually tried tuning the reel myself. It is in my opinion a reel with to narrow spool to benefit from non disengaging levelwind and simply does not perform as great as the 5X00 tuned similarly. I have tried, but nerver succeded in making a really nice reel out of a 4x00, but highly tuned 2x00, 5x00 and 6500 have turned out really well. I am not saying the 4600 is a bad reel. But going from a 5600 will probably be a disapointment in casting performance.
Hey, we should meet
Perhaps a couple of cold ones while we form our own cult...
Regarding the 4x reels I believe it has a lot to do with the weights of the lures you're throwing. Normally a smaller reel is geared towards lighter lures, but the 4x reels can't throw lighter lures well - actually for light lures it is slightly worse than a 5x reel. Like Ninjaman I've tried to get the 4x to throw light lures, but the level wind is a hinderance.
The advantage of the 4x is it's size which is actually rather comfortable (to me at least), as it's not quite as wide as a 5x reel the frame won't flex as much under pressure. My experience is that the 4x reels work very well for medium heavy lures when casting (1-3oz / 30-90g).
Re: Abu 4600 tuned to the max - how do they cast?
Those reels 4x00 and 5x00 are very good reels, but they lack performance and some features compared to new reels. I am talking to features like X-ship, HEG, etc. I do prefer the 5x00 as well.
The positive thing with those reels is that they cast very well when tuned, but they are still owned by some newer high end reels.
I use to have some tuned limited edition ambassadeur reels , but I have to say that even they are good performers they are not as solid as some machined aluminum reels that shimano or daiwa offers.
But if you like the look and feel, then it should be the perfect reel for you.
The 2500 is very good performer when casting light lures.
Reg /T
PS: Hej Ninja and Mooki !
The positive thing with those reels is that they cast very well when tuned, but they are still owned by some newer high end reels.
I use to have some tuned limited edition ambassadeur reels , but I have to say that even they are good performers they are not as solid as some machined aluminum reels that shimano or daiwa offers.
But if you like the look and feel, then it should be the perfect reel for you.
The 2500 is very good performer when casting light lures.
Reg /T
PS: Hej Ninja and Mooki !
Last edited by tonyex on Tue Mar 26, 2013 7:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Abu 4600 tuned to the max - how do they cast?
Hehe, us Swedes are spawning 
Better watch out!
Tjenixen Tony, tänk vilka små filurer man springer på ute i "sajbörspäjs"...
Better watch out!
Tjenixen Tony, tänk vilka små filurer man springer på ute i "sajbörspäjs"...
Re: Abu 4600 tuned to the max - how do they cast?
Hehe, svårt att förutse. Eller hur?Mooki wrote: Tjenixen Tony, tänk vilka små filurer man springer på ute i "sajbörspäjs"...
Tänk att jag hade mer än 200 inlägg innan den här sidan kraschade för några månader sen.
Häls /T
Re: Abu 4600 tuned to the max - how do they cast?
Yeah, maybe we should start a swedish TT chapter?
Where the beer flow, the size of our catches only get slightly exaggerated and we may speak freely on our opinions on various reels
Sorry about us being a bit off topic. But it is swedes tend to get emotionally involved whenever ambassadeurs are discussed.
Where the beer flow, the size of our catches only get slightly exaggerated and we may speak freely on our opinions on various reels
Sorry about us being a bit off topic. But it is swedes tend to get emotionally involved whenever ambassadeurs are discussed.
Re: Abu 4600 tuned to the max - how do they cast?
[quote="Mooki"]Actually the "consensus" mentioned by Ninjaman is in reality the fact that UT once claimed this is the case, seems that very few in Sweden "dare" say anything that goes against UT:s gospel. The few discussions I've had with him actually made me question his engineering skills - still his tuning kits do perform well, so I reckon he's done something right.
My personal belief is that he simply assembled kits with components from different manufacturers (Avail spool, B trap levelwind or similar), reckon he bought enough to have them anodized in any color he wished.
The debate is still on going regarding the 4x Ambassadeurs, as late as last week there was a thread at the largest Swedish fishing forum, a couple of old timers (both in regards to fishing and tinkering) are quite adamant that their tricked out 4x reels perform on level with similarly tricked out 5x reels.
My advice would be not to listen too much to those that claim "it can't be done", if you like to tinker why not rather try to prove that it indeed can be done?
Despite the above, if you can get your hands on a 2500 that would definitely be the preferred route to go.[/quote]
You believe UT is just putting together tuning kits based on parts he buys from other tuning manufacturers, I know you are wrong. I have more than 30 UT spools in all sizes except 4000 from 1500 to 7000. I also have shallow UT spools for 1500 and 2500, one of them even drilled to reduce the weight. All UT spools are designed by UT and produced in Sweden. These spools have a much better strength to weight ratio than other tuning spools. The level winds with ball bearings are modified for UT from original Abu parts. The cog wheels are also modified in Sweden based on UT design ( I use the ones with two ball bearing for almost all my reels) The first generation UT ball bearing was very close to TG's Rocket bearings both in design and performance, but after the ball bearings were modified they are performing much better than anything else I've tried. And in addition they don't require the wear-in which other bearings need to reach top performance. These bearings are of course not produced by UT, but they are custom made according to UT specifications.
The reason why 4x00 is not performing as well as the other classic reels is the narrow spool. Each time the line guide is turning some energy is lost and the turning is also causing vibrations which are shortening the casts even more. After UT introduced the lightweight aluminum line guides this has changed a bit when it comes to 4x00 performance, with the lightweight line guide it's possible to get decent performance from the reel. I did not like 1500C that much either before the aluminum line guides, I then used 2500C also for the lightest lures.
My personal belief is that he simply assembled kits with components from different manufacturers (Avail spool, B trap levelwind or similar), reckon he bought enough to have them anodized in any color he wished.
The debate is still on going regarding the 4x Ambassadeurs, as late as last week there was a thread at the largest Swedish fishing forum, a couple of old timers (both in regards to fishing and tinkering) are quite adamant that their tricked out 4x reels perform on level with similarly tricked out 5x reels.
My advice would be not to listen too much to those that claim "it can't be done", if you like to tinker why not rather try to prove that it indeed can be done?
Despite the above, if you can get your hands on a 2500 that would definitely be the preferred route to go.[/quote]
You believe UT is just putting together tuning kits based on parts he buys from other tuning manufacturers, I know you are wrong. I have more than 30 UT spools in all sizes except 4000 from 1500 to 7000. I also have shallow UT spools for 1500 and 2500, one of them even drilled to reduce the weight. All UT spools are designed by UT and produced in Sweden. These spools have a much better strength to weight ratio than other tuning spools. The level winds with ball bearings are modified for UT from original Abu parts. The cog wheels are also modified in Sweden based on UT design ( I use the ones with two ball bearing for almost all my reels) The first generation UT ball bearing was very close to TG's Rocket bearings both in design and performance, but after the ball bearings were modified they are performing much better than anything else I've tried. And in addition they don't require the wear-in which other bearings need to reach top performance. These bearings are of course not produced by UT, but they are custom made according to UT specifications.
The reason why 4x00 is not performing as well as the other classic reels is the narrow spool. Each time the line guide is turning some energy is lost and the turning is also causing vibrations which are shortening the casts even more. After UT introduced the lightweight aluminum line guides this has changed a bit when it comes to 4x00 performance, with the lightweight line guide it's possible to get decent performance from the reel. I did not like 1500C that much either before the aluminum line guides, I then used 2500C also for the lightest lures.