Three 6' JDM Destroyers walk into a bar.....

[Houndfish]

And the bartender says "Man, I coulda bought thirty Ugly Sticks for what you guys cost!"

This next season I am going to re-devote myself to finesse fishing and I am looking to pick a somewhat specific BFS rod. Right now my main finesse casting rod is an XXX Black Themis. It is a wonderful rod for, well everything a normal person would use a ML/XF spinning rod for, drop shot, tiny jigs, neko rigs, a little wacky/flick shake, stuff like that. Where it lacks is casting ease and accuracy, it's too long and stiff for one-handed casting and seems to prefer lures on the upper end of it's range. Last year I picked up a Loomis cr721 IMX and while it has the softer action I am looking for, it is also too heavy. I think the 3/16oz lower end is about it's max and it doesn't load a 3/16oz Ned rig well enough for easy and accurate casting. If Loomis made a cr720 I think it would be perfect. I am looking for a rod that excels at 3/16-5/16oz total-weight soft plastics+jigheads, 1/8oz spinnerbaits, and small cranks for stream fishing. I want it no longer then 6', again for one-handed casting ease and to make it less of a pain for hiking and wading. I am likely to stick a PX68 on whatever rod I end up with.

This brings us to the bad joke of a title, these three JDM Destroyer rods, ignoring the Hien:


The Elese, Criffhanger, and Speed Tip Custom are all (almost) the same length and have the same weight ratings, only the tapers and power ratings to distinguish them. I have found almost no info online about these rods and am wondering if anyone can offer any insight as to if any of them would fit the uses I outlined above. I am thinking the Criffhanger would be the obvious choice but the 1/2oz upper rating has me a bit worried, but that apples to all three rods.

I am not locked into anything at this point but really want to stick to 6' and under and around the $300-400 range max. Any input would be very welcome.

[Houndfish]

Found some little charts that show the action of each, the Criffhanger and STC look really close and honestly the Elese isn't too far off.

[TravisNY]

Extremely remote smallmouth cast/cast and a half wide rivers are all I fish. I recently dropped Gary at TTT a near identical inquiry regarding my type of water. From all of my research looking for the ultimate (available) Megabass small top water rod I was dead set on the Elese carbon head but think I will up the ante a bit and 6" of length and turn to the C40 Estoque. I lip a lot of 18-20+ smallmouth a year and was concerned about a F1 a bit. I also wanted an extra 6" for just a bit more distance when called upon in the air clear summer water to get further out of the spook zone. From everything I've researched the Elese was designed strictly top water. Specifically the Baby Pop X and the Dog X Jr. While the Criffhanger for light bottom contact such as the small Hedgehog jigs etc. I'm sorry that probably nothing I typed helps but it's the same road I've been traveling for a few months. Best of luck with your purchase.

[Houndfish]

I'm sorry that probably nothing I typed helps but it's the same road I've been traveling for a few months. Best of luck with your purchase.

Actually that was extremely helpful! I was really interested in the Elese and it's good to hear I'm not alone. Most of the smallmouths I am catching are far far smaller then the ones you are dealing with, mine average 8-12" with a 15" one being a once a year treat at best. Other then that I would be chasing similarly sized LMBs in some of the less-pristine suburban streams in my area. The smaller average bass size makes me less afraid of a P1 rod. I looked up some of the recommended lures and honestly some of them have hooks about the size and thickness of the jighead's I plan on using. The most challenging lure, hookset-wise, I really plan on using would be a Slider Pro Head with a 6" Robo or Swamp Crawler t-tigged on it. Most everything else will be small, thin-wire open hooks or very thin plastics, like t-rigged 3" stickbaits and maybe the heaviest being a 2.75" tube on a 1/8oz sledhead for a total weight of just under 5/16oz. If the Elses could handle these sort of lures I really think it would be a very fun rod and the specs make me think it would be a joy to cast.

I don't want to end up with a rod that is too close in power to the cr721 and I kinda think that even if the Elese does not work out for this purpose I would still have a blast using it for small shads and jerks fishing the same waters.

[TravisNY]

Thank you sir. In my travels of trying to find anything I could on the Criffhanger I found some good information here from the way back days. If memory serves and don't hold me to this MHood posted that the Criffhanger was stiffer than the CR that you mention. He also posted a link to a video something to the tune of "Megabass bait finesse". The Criffhanger was used in that clip. I think that you have a very solid backup plan for the Elese concerning small plug work. I will be pleased to hear your feedback on it once in hand. I was oh so close on pulling the trigger on it.

[jmb27]

Thank you sir. In my travels of trying to find anything I could on the Criffhanger I found some good information here from the way back days. If memory serves and don't hold me to this MHood posted that the Criffhanger was stiffer than the CR that you mention. He also posted a link to a video something to the tune of "Megabass bait finesse". The Criffhanger was used in that clip. I think that you have a very solid backup plan for the Elese concerning small plug work. I will be pleased to hear your feedback on it once in hand. I was oh so close on pulling the trigger on it.

I have recently got the MB X7 F2-63 Super Criffhanger. While I realize that there are differences within the MB line for rods w/similar names, the MB X7 does have a regular taper. I've used it a few times, with small jigs (1/8) and drop shotting. The rod is very crisp, and offers good control with a fish on with light line. I plan on using this rod for small plugs as well.

*IF* the above 6' Criffhanger is similar to the X7 version, I think that you'd be happy with it as an all-round BFS rod.

[Houndfish]

I have recently got the MB X7 F2-63 Super Criffhanger. While I realize that there are differences within the MB line for rods w/similar names, the MB X7 does have a medium fast taper, similar to the Destroyer listed above. I've used it a few times, with small jigs (1/8) and drop shotting. The rod is very crisp, and offers good control with a fish on with light line. I plan on using this rod for small plugs as well.

*IF* the above 6' Criffhanger is similar to the X7 version, I think that you'd be happy with it as an all-round BFS rod.

Cool, thanks for the info!

I found this thread that TravisNY mentioned:
http://www.tackletour.net/viewtopic.php?t=66369

But I think they are discussing an different Elese from the 16' Destroyer as the thread is from October 2015 and they are referencing a F0 rod. On one hand, I think it's cool how MB takes a basic rod idea and riffs on it over and over again, but at the same time it makes it hard to look up a specific one, especially if there is one iteration that is way way more popular then the others.

I am going to read up on the other Criffhangers tonight and see if one of the older ones is what I am looking for.

[TravisNY]

"Yes the CR721 is softer than the F2-60X Criffhanger. Go to YouTube and type in Megabass Movie The Bait Finesse and you can see Yuki Ito using the F2-60X."

Yes sir from that thread that was the sentence I remembered.

[Houndfish]

"Yes the CR721 is softer than the F2-60X Criffhanger. Go to YouTube and type in Megabass Movie The Bait Finesse and you can see Yuki Ito using the F2-60X."

Yes sir from that thread that was the sentence I remembered.

I found thet video, it looks like it was recored on a cellphone from 2000 I could tell he was holding a fishing rod but not much beyond that. I’m gonna try and hunt up a better version latter tonight.

In regards to the above quote, it makes me wanna just buy thirty Ugly Stixs and be done with it. By the numbers the F2-60X should be less powerful and slower then the cr721. Let’s go at this from a different angle, I’m I crazy for finding the cr721 overpowered for the presentations I am trying to throw on it?

[TravisNY]

Don't throw in the towel . Keep hunting. I can't help you with your bottom contact choices in size or overall weight as I use smaller and way less weight even for my big smallies. I am strictly spin for such. Here's where I paste 15 links to articles from Ned's site on my lead/plastic uses. Keep in mind that I was entirely on a quest for a finesse top water rod. Elephants eat peanuts on my waters and am sure every rod you listed would be a joy to use. Unfortunately there's only one way to find out. Take the plunge and purchase. For what you describe I don't think that you're off base at all in wanting less power than the CR.

[Houndfish]

The hunt will continue, I just wish there was a reasonable way to get my hands on any >$100 rod before I buy it. The little taper charts for the Elese and Criffhanger look close enough that I feel like it could be a tossup.

[TravisNY]

Understood sir and I agree. Amazing what just a few minutes with a potential purchase in hand can do to sway one way or another. Unfortunately I have had to always buy my rods "blind". The reason I have to research so much before buying. This forum is a gem.
Agreed on those two. Similar indeed under load. One slower, one faster is about it.

[timinmo]

I don't know if this will help but here is my personal experience. I have a custom Loomis CR721, it is OK. Certainly not great and I don't know that it would meet your needs,as you stated. The Loomis SJ720 is one of my favorite small stream spinning rods and I have built one as a casting rod as well as having the spinning version. It works well for small T-rigs, jigs that sort of thing but it will tear out small trebles. I also have built a casting rod on the Batson Immortal Walleye blank 6'2" spinning rated light and fast. That blank is not nearly as fast as the SJ720 and seems to handle small trebles well. I think both would cast 1/8 well but would give the Immortal the edge in accuracy. Since Loomis no longer sells blanks you have to go to the MHX available from Mudhole. What I used was an IMX blank. I think, Northfork Composites also offers a version of this blank and I have been very satisfied with their products. I don't think I have ever thrown anything heavier that 1/4 on either rod but assume you could push it a little with either. The 720 is, or was rated as a Mag-light and is a much more powerful blank.

So in my mind for single hooks I would chose the fast rod and for trebles the slower. Maybe I should have said that to start and not typed all the above BS.

I have used my PX68R on both rods as well as a 51 Calcutta.

[Houndfish]

I don't know if this will help but here is my personal experience.

Very helpful, thanks! I have a pair of the loomis MagL/XF spinning rods and agree that they are ideal for the uses I am wanting in a BFS rod. I also agree that they are not great with smaller trebles, but I often swap to slightly thicker single hooks on my sub-3" hardbaits and I have yet to bend a hook and I feel like I am not ripping many out. I think in a casting rod the MagL/XF taper is a little too fast for my ideal but it is very close.

[Houndfish]

Well, my dilemma has been solved! A member here PMed me about a Phase 3 Criffhanger he was selling and the price was good enough to make be jump on it.


All I have done so far is about 20min of yard-fishing with it and I think this was what I was looking for. I played with it next to the cr721 and the P3 Criffhanger seems like exactly what I wanted the cr721 to be. I can make easy one-hand casts with a Ned with far more accuracy then the Loomis rod would give, the tip on the MB loads way better and dragging the lure across a snowy field gave far more feedback then I would have expected. I am still interested in the Elese but I can wait until a used one shows up.

I am going to try and get a fish on the CH tomorrow, if I can't a bass to bite I think I should be able to manage a crappie on a spoon or spinner.