Readdressing An Old Issue -- China

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Johnny A
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Readdressing An Old Issue -- China

Post by Johnny A » Mon Mar 02, 2015 1:58 am

What are your thoughts about high-line products being produced outside of Japan?

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Re: Readdressing An Old Issue -- China

Post by metanium » Mon Mar 02, 2015 3:25 am

I'm fine with it as long as materials, construction, and quality control is the same as it is/would be if manufactured in Japan. A couple of quality examples I can think of include Orochi XX rods, Curado I, Tatula. I'm impressed with all of these items and have yet to see an issue that points to inferior manufacturing.

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Re: Readdressing An Old Issue -- China

Post by lordhell » Mon Mar 02, 2015 4:47 am

IMO, the retail price point should reflect the cost savings from manufacturing in China. In some cases, products coming out of China are not priced with the cost savings passed to end consumers, rather the manufacturers seek higher margins from these products. If I have to pick between a premium offering from China or a premium offering from Japan, I will choose the Japanese offer since I know the prices actually reflect costs of production in Japan.

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Re: Readdressing An Old Issue -- China

Post by Bootytrain » Mon Mar 02, 2015 4:51 am

Its a double edged sword really. Manufacturers go to China to reduce costs, but may not pass that savings on to the customer. Seems like a bad business practice but they have the right as a business to try to increase their profits.

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Re: Readdressing An Old Issue -- China

Post by njbasscat » Mon Mar 02, 2015 6:20 am

lordhell wrote:IMO, the retail price point should reflect the cost savings from manufacturing in China. In some cases, products coming out of China are not priced with the cost savings passed to end consumers, rather the manufacturers seek higher margins from these products. If I have to pick between a premium offering from China or a premium offering from Japan, I will choose the Japanese offer since I know the prices actually reflect costs of production in Japan.
I agree 100%

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Re: Readdressing An Old Issue -- China

Post by Cagey » Mon Mar 02, 2015 7:12 am

The Chinese are doing two things right now to change their image. 1)They are buying up famous brand names and marketing their Chinese made products through the companies they are buying along with their established markets and reputations. And 2)The Chinese are trying to emerge with their own brand names and build up better reputations that way too.

I have made the switch over to the Chinese made Tokushima HK series spinning reels and left Shimano behind for now.

Some Chinese are trying to improve their bad image and bad reputation by making better products and we are beginning to see that.

While companies like Shimano are resting on their laurels and reputations and their products' quality seem to be going downhill, not because virtually none of their products are made in Japan any more, but because they are just making a cheaper product and using more plastic and less metal in their reels.

So on the one hand the Chinese and Koreans are coming up and Japan is going down and soon they will be on the same playing field with virtually zero difference. We are getting close now.

So I am finding that I am saving a ton of money by selective buying from China. I really like the ceramic hybrid bearings I am getting from them and especially the price, and I really like the Tokushima HK spinning reels and the price, and just today I ordered some lures from China. I even buy some Chinese braid line because I like it dry with none of the lubricant poisons like teflon like you find on Power Pro and other braid manufacturers.

Selective careful buying from China can save you money. No doubt about it.

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Re: Readdressing An Old Issue -- China

Post by Johnny A » Mon Mar 02, 2015 7:21 am

njbasscat wrote:
lordhell wrote:IMO, the retail price point should reflect the cost savings from manufacturing in China. In some cases, products coming out of China are not priced with the cost savings passed to end consumers, rather the manufacturers seek higher margins from these products. If I have to pick between a premium offering from China or a premium offering from Japan, I will choose the Japanese offer since I know the prices actually reflect costs of production in Japan.
I agree 100%
Thanks guys. That's where I wanted to go.

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Re: Readdressing An Old Issue -- China

Post by cbream » Mon Mar 02, 2015 8:22 am

The chinese haven't had an original idea in a century. They are great at copying things and making good designs cheap and cheaper. The kids over there fight to get into our colleges and universities because their education system is still in the dark ages. Cheap is cheap. Cheap is never better.

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Re: Readdressing An Old Issue -- China

Post by triple_illusion » Mon Mar 02, 2015 4:28 pm

Johnny A wrote:What are your thoughts about high-line products being produced outside of Japan?
They just aren't the same. Part of what makes a JDM product so special is knowing that the hands that produced it were highly skilled. The Japanese have a reputation for excelling at everything, seeking perfection in all they do.

That being said, the Chinese people have been ripped off by their leaders for far too long and I do hope things improve for our brothers and sisters over there.

As for the current companies, what is missing is the ability for a large company to remain small. It takes a special kind of leadership to keep the humble beginnings and pure passion alive, and I see that waning from all companies I am fond of.

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Re: Readdressing An Old Issue -- China

Post by MTBF » Mon Mar 02, 2015 9:03 pm

Doesn't bother me. It's nice that all my reels are made in Japan but when it comes to rods, my rods made in the USA by G.Loomis and the rest are Shimano Expride's or Megabass Orochi XX's. These rods have been fished and excel greatly on the water, good guide wrapping everything seems straight and perfect.

0 Issues with China making high end rods...buy a reel from there, not in my lifetime :lol:

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Re: Readdressing An Old Issue -- China

Post by IlliniDawg01 » Mon Mar 02, 2015 10:53 pm

There are good products made all over the world, but the true top of the line stuff still seems to come out of Japan with a few really nice things here and there made elsewhere (Abu and Loomis come to mind). That being said, if you are looking for value instead of top of the line seek it where you can find it rather than limiting your search to Japan.

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Re: Readdressing An Old Issue -- China

Post by Cal » Mon Mar 02, 2015 11:30 pm

metanium wrote:A couple of quality examples I can think of include Orochi XX rods, Curado I, Tatula.

The Curado I is made in Malaysia.

The Tatula is made in Thailand.

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Re: Readdressing An Old Issue -- China

Post by USA-RET » Mon Mar 02, 2015 11:42 pm

This:
lordhell wrote:IMO, the retail price point should reflect the cost savings from manufacturing in China. In some cases, products coming out of China are not priced with the cost savings passed to end consumers, rather the manufacturers seek higher margins from these products. If I have to pick between a premium offering from China or a premium offering from Japan, I will choose the Japanese offer since I know the prices actually reflect costs of production in Japan.
and this:
Bootytrain wrote:Its a double edged sword really. Manufacturers go to China to reduce costs, but may not pass that savings on to the customer. Seems like a bad business practice but they have the right as a business to try to increase their profits.
The following was said about the Japanese in the 1950's:
cbream wrote:The chinese haven't had an original idea in a century. They are great at copying things and making good designs cheap and cheaper. The kids over there fight to get into our colleges and universities because their education system is still in the dark ages. Cheap is cheap. Cheap is never better.
Now the Japanese products are highly sought after and considered the cream of the crop. They still use the same "research, and re-engineer" techniques to take existing products to make them better.

Market share goes to those that can produce a product that performs well, lasts, costs less and meets the consumer's needs.

Just my $.02

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Re: Readdressing An Old Issue -- China

Post by TommyG » Tue Mar 03, 2015 12:56 am

Anyone remember the phrase "Cheap Japanese Junk"

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Re: Readdressing An Old Issue -- China

Post by IAY » Tue Mar 03, 2015 1:54 am

cbream wrote:The chinese haven't had an original idea in a century. They are great at copying things and making good designs cheap and cheaper. The kids over there fight to get into our colleges and universities because their education system is still in the dark ages. Cheap is cheap. Cheap is never better.
I have no idea where you got that idea about their education system, but you are clearly misinformed. Those kids come to United States, because it used to offer by far best opportunity for science, and mathematics. Plus it is much much more difficult to get into the good primary schools and universities than in USA. I honestly could careless where the products are made, as long as I am getting the best for what I am paying. Look at the World Shaula, and Jackall x Shimano series rods, and tell me they are poor. They thrive in a much more competitive Japanese fishing market, despite being made in China.

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