Automotive Observations

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goldrod
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Automotive Observations

Post by goldrod » Fri May 22, 2020 1:26 am

I've seen a-lot of Youtube videos that talk down on every brand of automobile that you can name. You name it and there's someone on the internet bashing it.
Mostly though I see videos on how this brand is garbage and this brand is too expensive to own or this one is unreliable yet when I see car races or shows I always see
a few of them in the line up. After watching a few videos and reading some things on the internet I wondered if there was a such thing as a reliable german made V8?

Toyota Seems to be the most reliable manufacture to date and I know some people only buy U.S. products but the US. car makers have their share of lemons to. Seems like
every Chevy or GMC truck from the early 2000 has a paint peeling or fading on the hood or roof while the rest of the vehicle looks great and I just dont understand why. Now
this is just cosmetic stuff but seems like ( and I could be misinformed ) Ford had and issue with the F-150 and mustangs at one time and the impala Ltz. Dodges hellcat has
had transmission problems. Lincoln has had electrical issues with the MK series, and I could go on.
The other day I met a guy with a 1996 Pontiac Sunfire, it was his mothers and it was not garage kept and the paint was immaculate and the dash wasn't cracked or anything
and it had all the original pieces parts. It just made me wonder why aren't we making stuff like this anymore? The prices of vehicles have gone to a different stratus sphere than
i've ever imagined but where is the quality and reliability?

One of my recent purchases was a family vehicle and I've got a warranty til 2024 but it takes a list up special tools just to change the oil and when you look underneath the hood
you dont see that much engine compared to when I was a kid looking underneath the hood of my grandmothers' 76 Nova that she built. Which brings me to something that I've not
noticed until recently. My grandmother built her car and did her own body work. She didnt paint it but everything else was her, Id see my grandfather cursing as he would be
"setting points" ( never knew what that meant but it seemed to suck cause he was not in a good mood when doing it) or adjusting the drum brakes. Nowadays it doesn't seem like
people can affordably build their car. Once this country had VoTech schools for the kids who weren't going into the military but also wasn't going to a four year college, now there doesn't
seem like any exist anymore. I could be wrong but seemed like that was a very important aspect of life and being able to contribute to society, even though you didnt have a college
degree you still had a markable skill set that would allow you to make an honest living.

What do you think the future holds in terms of automobile reliability?
Do you think manufacturer's are pricing transpiration out of reach of the average Joe?
Do you think that Vocational schools should be brought back and if not what do you think has replaced them?
It seems like the V8 engines are dying and the norm is going to be the V6 and V6 variants i.e. turbo v6, or cogeneration gas electric
engines. Do you think the V8 is obsolete ?
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Slazmo
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Re: Automotive Observations

Post by Slazmo » Fri May 22, 2020 2:26 am

Definitely on point with the V8 being made obsolete.

When I sold my 2nd car of 14 years - my purchase parameters was to be quiet set on a few points of
1. User serviceability
2. Overall price vs quality
3. Durability
4. Something I know - easy to work on (Japanese tools)
5. Needed something safe, practical, fuel efficient and for the little one that came along.

While it's not appealing to most I just bought a Mitsubishi ASX (USDM Outlander Sport) - they compromise all this over the top fancy crap for manufacturing process and technologies that are 'old' but well trusted and set in Mitsubishi's way. Plus a "lot" of automotive hire companies use these cars extensively and have very few issues for the time they get hired and thrashed - possibly a good idea to ask who's using what to see what holds up...

Plenty of people picking things apart on YouTube - same as the reel world... Some people are valid in their opinions because they're respected engineers and media identities that have been around for decades - but some people are just trash talking charismatic characters that gain a following.

But let's be honest - Edisons business plan for planned obsolescence is well in its effect on every market and product out there.
Just comes down to the manufacturer having a little self respect and a good morale compass to deliver a product - but money makes monsters of men...

timinmo
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Re: Automotive Observations

Post by timinmo » Fri May 22, 2020 11:16 am

My feelings maybe different as I spent over 30 years in the auto manufacturing business starting in the early 70s. The first cars I drove were from the early sixties. So here is what I see based on that experience.

Cars from the 60s that so many people wax nostalgic about were lucky to make it to 100000 miles, some that I drove were such rust buckets that you have to be careful where you put you feet. Things did not improve much in the 70s and in many cases got worse. Oil "shortages" came along and as auto makers struggled to make cars more fuel efficient, other things went south. The first car I bought was a Truimph TR6 fun to drive but the side draft carburators sucked.

Fast forward to current. Not without problems along the way. I currently have a full sized 4 wheel drive truck that gets over 20 mpg on the highway this may not sound great until you think about a similar vehicle from the 70s would not have broke 10 mpg, ask me how I know. Our other car, a 4 door sedan, gets well into the mid 30 mpg. Fuel injection is great, I grew up with carburators. The sedan has something over 100000 miles and other than regular service and tires we have done nothing to it. We all expect to get 200000 miles on any car and most will run into the 300000s with no major problems. The shade tree mechanic is pretty much a thing of the past in most cases. But for the equipped professional alot of issues are easier than ever.

As far as safety. Generally a current sub compact is probably safer than a 2 ton sedan from the 60s or 70s. I say that without any facts at my finger tips but there is a much bigger emphasis on safety now.

So that is my opinion and yours may be different.

goldrod
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Re: Automotive Observations

Post by goldrod » Fri May 22, 2020 12:32 pm

All opinions are insightful, interesting if not educational
I would have posted this on any other forum.
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uljersey
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Re: Automotive Observations

Post by uljersey » Sun May 24, 2020 6:47 am

There was a fantastic documentary on PBS some years ago that told the story of the big three's fall and the rise of Japan in the automotive world. In a nutshell it told the story of how Datsun (which would become Nissan decades later) introduced it's first vehicles here in the late 1950's primarily on the west coast. It was an epic flop, they were horrible vehicles in all respects - fit, finish, reliability, overall quality, etc. They bought back these vehicles from customers, closed shop and took everything back to Japan. They meticulously disassembled these vehicles to determine what they did wrong and undertook a long journey which would lead to the takeover of the US market in the late 70's - early 80's. It also simultaneously told the story of the big three's (GM in particular) resistance to change and arrogance towards the changes taking place. They were dying dinosaurs being pushed aside by the upstart Japanese. They were pushing junk while Japan was offering quality vehicles that were reliable and economical while they stuck to the outdated notions of "son's buying whatever dad drove" which is blind brand loyalty. The big three would blame unions and labor for their ills but it was (and still is IMO) their arrogance and disregard for their customer base that was/is the reason for their problems.

I'm of the opinion that it's not that the big three can't make a vehicle that can compete, it's that they just don't want to. It's like they grudgingly drag their feet to do the bare minimum. I realize EVERY manufacturer has their issues, it's how they treat the customer in the end that separates them.

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uljersey
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Re: Automotive Observations

Post by uljersey » Sun May 24, 2020 7:06 am

timinmo wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 11:16 am

As far as safety. Generally a current sub compact is probably safer than a 2 ton sedan from the 60s or 70s. I say that without any facts at my finger tips but there is a much bigger emphasis on safety now.

So that is my opinion and yours may be different.
Spot on. For the longest time there was a misguided belief that the "tanks" of the 50's, 60's and 70's were 'safer' due to them being more rigid and heavier, when in fact survival rates were dismal compared to today. Back then the drivers and passengers absorbed the bulk of impacts rather than the vehicle taking the brunt of the crash via the "crumble zones". Look at how a modern vehicle looks after a front end collision ... the passenger cabin area is usually somewhat intact while the front of the car looks like an accordion and when you add airbags into the equation it's not even a contest anymore. I've driven plenty of old vehicles ... you can keep your carburetors, bias ply tires, drum brakes and antiquated suspensions, I'll take the relatively trouble free vehicles of today.

goldrod
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Re: Automotive Observations

Post by goldrod » Mon May 25, 2020 8:49 am

uljersey wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 7:06 am
timinmo wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 11:16 am

As far as safety. Generally a current sub compact is probably safer than a 2 ton sedan from the 60s or 70s. I say that without any facts at my finger tips but there is a much bigger emphasis on safety now.

So that is my opinion and yours may be different.
Spot on. For the longest time there was a misguided belief that the "tanks" of the 50's, 60's and 70's were 'safer' due to them being more rigid and heavier, when in fact survival rates were dismal compared to today. Back then the drivers and passengers absorbed the bulk of impacts rather than the vehicle taking the brunt of the crash via the "crumble zones". Look at how a modern vehicle looks after a front end collision ... the passenger cabin area is usually somewhat intact while the front of the car looks like an accordion and when you add airbags into the equation it's not even a contest anymore. I've driven plenty of old vehicles ... you can keep your carburetors, bias ply tires, drum brakes and antiquated suspensions, I'll take the relatively trouble free vehicles of today.
Really good point
I remember my grandmother telling me that we were in a wreck and just before impact she put her right arm out to help brace me in her 76? Cadillac.
Now I’m tracking off ramps on run flats at Twenty mph over the speed limit and no body roll or sliding. Not saying it’s safe or the best practice just something I can recall having done. Brakes nowadays seem to be way better too except for the people who don’t know how to use them.
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slipperybob
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Re: Automotive Observations

Post by slipperybob » Sat Jun 13, 2020 7:20 am

Don't know much about cars but I sure do miss that 40+ mpg on that carburetor engine vs the same replace vehicle that went with a fuel injection that gets me about 25 mpg. There was only about 10 or so hp difference in either 4 cylinder engine. The older car had 14" rims compare to the newer one with 15" rims. Never quite understood why such huge difference in gas consumption, when fuel injection was to be more fuel efficient.
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